# Chickenhawks at the SDMB **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076 "2004-10-19T18:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/1 "2004-10-19T18:14:57Z")
So, here I was reading [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=281354&page=2&pp=50) when I find that yet another gung ho supporter of the war was, surprise, never in the military. So, for those who were so adamant for war, say, specifically, Iraq, were you ever in the military? **Sam Stone** , who knows absolutely everything there is to know about the military situation of every nation on earth and exactly how they should use their military. Espeically the US. **Brutus** , when his posts exceed one line, has been known to rattle off the weapons and armor loadout on various military hardware. And on and on, blah blah etc. So, we have a very vocal bunch of people (sometimes referred to as the Usual Suspects) around here who are very eager to to see militaries being used. They also have a serious aversion to admitting those militaries have made mistakes or were used badly. It could be explained by a residual esprit de corps, but is that the case? Or, like the current occupants of the White House, are they just a bunch of chickenhawks? -Joe, ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/2 "2004-10-19T18:22:17Z")
Hijack and personal experience: My father drove a tank in the American Army, right in the front lines into Germany in World War II. When I was in college, during the Viet Nam War, his advice to me was to get out of being drafted, however I could. He even said that if I needed to flee to Canada, he’d support me financially. My best friend’s father spent WWII as a radio operator in Texas. He was in the army, but never was in combat and never left the Continental U.S. He couldn’t understand why my friend wouldn’t WANT to be in the army, it was “such a wonderful experience” (his words.) ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/3 "2004-10-19T18:22:34Z")
Does this mean that if I advocate UN peacekeeping or the Kyoto protocol I have to have served on a Security Council or wind farm? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/4 "2004-10-19T18:23:39Z")
No good can come of this. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/5 "2004-10-19T18:27:27Z")
Oh sweet Christ. FWIW I don’t think military experience is needed to be for or against the war. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/6 "2004-10-19T18:28:31Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Does this mean that if I advocate UN peacekeeping or the Kyoto protocol I have to have served on a Security Council or wind farm? Nice straw man. Anything to contribute? > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > No good can come of this. Maybe some full disclosure. Besides, it’s already passed the mod/admin test. That was my only real concern. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/7 "2004-10-19T18:30:15Z")
The Mod/Admin test only decides whether you’re breaking the rules of the board. The Mod/Admin test does not decide if you’re an idiot. John, Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/8 "2004-10-19T18:32:37Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > FWIW I don’t think military experience is needed to be for or against the war. I think the OP wants to imply that actual combat military experience reduces enthusiasm in getting into wars. Whilst being out of the army can make people “chickenhawks”. I agree with the OP… I just don’t like the way some people are against any war at all. ``` I'd just like to add that I'm a military enthusiast and I know the equipment, etc... but I'm no gung ho war supporter. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/9 "2004-10-19T18:35:03Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Oh sweet Christ. > > FWIW I don’t think military experience is needed to be for or against the war. Never said it did. I just want to know if the people who are so eager to have people put into dangerous situations were ever willing to potentially put themselves in similar situations. Simple idea, really. Just, perhaps, phrased in a confrontational way. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/10 "2004-10-19T18:40:29Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I just want to know if the people who are so eager to have people put into dangerous situations were ever willing to potentially put themselves in similar situations. Maybe the onus should be on you, initially, to provide evidence that these posters you have in mind are as “eager” as you say they are. Currently, it looks like some serious well-poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/11 "2004-10-19T18:42:33Z")
Oh I got you. In that case, yes, the Bush admin is rife with gutless bitches. Look at Cheney, the lead bitch if you will, he dipped 5 times! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/12 "2004-10-19T18:42:41Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Never said it did. > > I just want to know if the people who are so eager to have people put into dangerous situations were ever willing to potentially put themselves in similar situations. > > Simple idea, really. Just, perhaps, phrased in a confrontational way. > > -Joe In general, or specifically on this board? One of my friends was exeedingly outspoken in favor of the Iraq War. Then, his government department decided to send him to Iraq for a month (this was about four months ago). When he came back from having to spend time in the war zone with pistol and body armor, working with the U.S. army in various tasks, he was _still_ completely in favor of the war. Several others I know who are in favor of the war and support Bush are current or former military, some of whom served in Gulf I, and some of whom have a constant risk of being sent to Gulf II. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/13 "2004-10-19T18:47:56Z")
> [@John Corrado](#): > > The Mod/Admin test only decides whether you’re breaking the rules of the board. > > The Mod/Admin test does not decide if you’re an idiot. Thanks, that’s sweet. Am I an idiot for wondering, or an idiot for kicking over an anthill? > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > I think the OP wants to imply that actual combat military experience reduces enthusiasm in getting into wars. Whilst being out of the army can make people “chickenhawks”. I agree with the OP… I just don’t like the way some people are against any war at all. My point exactly. Anyone looking around at threads from before the war would find that I gave **sailor** (whereever did he disappear to?) for his absolute pacifism in the face of the upcoming war. His position was that, since innocent civilians would certainly be killed the war was totally unjustified and inexcusable. If everyone thought that way I could conquer the world with a handgun simply by threatening to gun down an innocent any time someone didn’t give me what I wanted. **ADUSAF** , for example I may disagree with, but I would never call or even insinuate him as a chickenhawk. After all, his ass will be put in danger long before a civilian in Canada… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/14 "2004-10-19T19:15:55Z")
My dad was a non combat vet. was totally against the Gulf war I (wasn’t around for this one), thought Nixon was “hounded out of office” and was anti draft dodger etc. However, he was also absolutely against his grandsons serving. I’ve seen vets totally for the Gulf War I and II, and against. Combat and non. Just like any other generalization, this ones worth exactly as much as the tar it’s painted with. MHO. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/15 "2004-10-19T19:17:36Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > So, here I was reading [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=281354&page=2&pp=50) when I find that yet another gung ho supporter of the war was, surprise, never in the military. > > So, for those who were so adamant for war, say, specifically, Iraq, were you ever in the military? > > **Sam Stone** , who knows absolutely everything there is to know about the military situation of every nation on earth and exactly how they should use their military. Espeically the US. > > **Brutus** , when his posts exceed one line, has been known to rattle off the weapons and armor loadout on various military hardware. I looked at your linked thread and I do not see any posts from **Sam Stone** or **Brutus** …so what is this OP really in reference to? Where is the link to this “gung ho” supporter mentality? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/16 "2004-10-19T19:30:46Z")
I’m not sure of the OP’s definition of “chickenhawk.” I always thought of a chickenhawk as someone who is gungho for war but takes active measures to avoid being in a combat situation – even if it results in someone else being put on the front lines who objects to the principles of war. Some posters here may support the war but never have been needed in the serivce – the wrong age, poor vision, etc. Believing that going to war is the right thing for your country to do does not mean that you also believe that it is right for you to enlist. Many factors have to be weighed. (I am almost always opposed to war.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/17 "2004-10-19T19:50:38Z")
Whaaaaaaaaaa!!! I want to be able to use an _ad hominem_ argument if it supports my cause. Whaaaaaaaaaa!!! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/18 "2004-10-19T19:53:53Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Whaaaaaaaaaa!!! > > I want to be able to use an _ad hominem_ argument if it supports my cause. > > Whaaaaaaaaaa!!! You know there could be a granule of merit to the notion of people being tough under certain circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/19 "2004-10-19T19:54:01Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > My point exactly. > > Anyone looking around at threads from before the war would find that I gave **sailor** (whereever did he disappear to?) for his absolute pacifism in the face of the upcoming war. His position was that, since innocent civilians would certainly be killed the war was totally unjustified and inexcusable. If everyone thought that way I could conquer the world with a handgun simply by threatening to gun down an innocent any time someone didn’t give me what I wanted. I’m not able to follow you at all in this thread. Can you make your point less obliquely. Here’s what I’ve gathered so far: 1. You look down on “chickenhawks”, and you feel that you are justified to do so. 2. You look down on the opinions of “chickenhawks”, and you feel that you are justified to do so. 3. In the sentence above about **sailor** , you seem to have left out a word. You gave **sailor** what? “Grief”? About a pacifist position? 4. You feel **Airman Doors** position – whatever it may be – is legitimate because he served/serves in the armed forces? A couple things I can’t make out: are you for or against the war? Do you feel civilians should keep their opinions to the war to themselves? ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076/20 "2004-10-19T19:57:14Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Nice straw man. Anything to contribute? Whooooooooooosh. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chickenhawks-at-the-sdmb/270076.md?page=2)