# Chief Pendant. Go to hell you retarded racist. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794 "2010-06-19T18:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/161 "2010-06-29T12:45:07Z")
[Yao Ming](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yao_Ming) Didn’t basketball used to be the sport where Jewish players were disproportionately represented? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/162 "2010-06-29T15:14:44Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > [Yao Ming](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yao_Ming) > > Didn’t basketball used to be the sport where Jewish players were disproportionately represented? Yes. But of course the Jewish ‘basket ball gene’ must have somehow have crossed into the black ‘race’ leaving nary a trace. Either that or there were some social drivers to the change. One of the two. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/163 "2010-06-29T15:18:24Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > The idea that only whites are “racist” is one of the many bits of nonsense in this whole discussion. I don’t think I nor anyone on my side has ever said this. I’ve only pointed out very specific racists here. Not all of them are White, Lynn has some Japanese acolytes too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/164 "2010-06-29T19:50:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > 😕 You read that entirely the wrong way round, then. Not that I’d expect better from you, but come on… **Dibble** , get a grip. You intended to insult **Cheif Pendant** by comparing him to the people you regard as the lowest of the low. Even the **Pendant** wouldn’t hurl an ethnic slur like that. I’d say you really need to examine yourself more thoroughly before you sling that racist label at others. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/165 "2010-06-29T19:52:44Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Yes. But of course the Jewish ‘basket ball gene’ must have somehow have crossed into the black ‘race’ leaving nary a trace. > > Either that or there were some social drivers to the change. > > One of the two. Hm. Those would be almost impossible to tease apart. How could you figure out which of those is more likely? ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/166 "2010-06-30T01:37:35Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Yes. But of course the Jewish ‘basket ball gene’ must have somehow have crossed into the black ‘race’ leaving nary a trace. > > Either that or there were some social drivers to the change. > > One of the two. There were social drivers. The main social driver was to provide access for all groups, regardless of color, to participate. The second driver was when basketball became the highly-paid, fame-conferring career that it is. This means you now have an environment where essentially every putative candidate (within reason, every kid who has a knack for basketball) will put basketball first, abandoning that pursuit only when he underperforms relative to other groups. For this reason, professional (USA) basketball is a very good lab test to see what group performs best at it (hi, **you with the face**! ). Could the disparity be nurturing and not nature? Well, it’s a bit tough to swallow the idea that black kids somehow have superior coaching, facilities or family structure or any other advantage that, on average, tends to go to groups with higher incomes. It’s equally tough to swallow the notion that the much larger pool of white kids electively abandoned basketball in favor of a lower-paying career. What happens instead is that at every level the best stay in and the second-tier drops out. In the academic world, we can, and should, attribute the lack of success for some groups to a lack of opportunity. We have to control for that opportunity before we can make fair comparisons, and obviously that’s the sticking point for much of the debate here. It’s also why I put weight on factors such as controlling for income and parental education, or factors such as looking how immigrant groups perform in a “neutral” country (I assume **Belowjob2.0** is still working on his cite) , and the like. This isn’t a debate of nature or nurture. It’s a debate of the relative contributions, and whether, when nurture is normalized, there are innate differences that have practical consequences for outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/167 "2010-06-30T09:16:57Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > There were social drivers. The main social driver was to provide access for all groups, regardless of color, to participate. The second driver was when basketball became the highly-paid, fame-conferring career that it is. > > This means you now have an environment where essentially every putative candidate (within reason, every kid who has a knack for basketball) will put basketball first, abandoning that pursuit only when he underperforms relative to other groups. For this reason, professional (USA) basketball is a very good lab test to see what group performs best at it (hi, **you with the face**! ). Could the disparity be nurturing and not nature? Well, it’s a bit tough to swallow the idea that black kids somehow have superior coaching, facilities or family structure or any other advantage that, on average, tends to go to groups with higher incomes. It’s equally tough to swallow the notion that the much larger pool of white kids electively abandoned basketball in favor of a lower-paying career. What happens instead is that at every level the best stay in and the second-tier drops out. > > In the academic world, we can, and should, attribute the lack of success for some groups to a lack of opportunity. We have to control for that opportunity before we can make fair comparisons, and obviously that’s the sticking point for much of the debate here. It’s also why I put weight on factors such as controlling for income and parental education, or factors such as looking how immigrant groups perform in a “neutral” country (I assume **Belowjob2.0** is still working on his cite) , and the like. > > This isn’t a debate of nature or nurture. It’s a debate of the relative contributions, and whether, when nurture is normalized, there are innate differences that have practical consequences for outcomes. Stop repeating your useless racist swill to me you twat. You can dress it up in all the pseudo-intellectual crap you want but as someone who has forgotten more about sociology than you have the mental capacity to ever absorb I can tell you are still talking shit. You’ve demonstrated none of the many intermediate steps you would have to take to rule out other social drivers. That you have not but reached straight for the racist shit-stick on the basis of your self-professed ‘feelings’ shows your true colours. You sir are a clown and an idiot. And a racist not because you argue that there is a genetic component to IQ connected to race but because you reach your conclusions (and by ‘reach’ I mean stampede joyously towards) without proof of any sort,leaping from A straight to F without demonstrating any of the intermediate steps or considering any other options. And before you do another of your ‘Half-Educated Clown with Google’ impressions don’t bother. No - do bother. It’s funny and helps reinforce the Pedant = Ass meme we want to get going here. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/168 "2010-06-30T10:03:25Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > **Dibble** , get a grip. You intended to insult **Cheif Pendant** by comparing him to the people you regard as the lowest of the low. Err, no. I intended to insult him by comparing his insulting abilities to those of people _he_ considers mentally retarded. \*My \*opinion of Bushmen’s intelligence (which is quite a high one) doesn’t enter into it. And it wasn’t just an insulting comparison, it was also the truth - Bushmen make up damn good insults. That, plus you are aware I’m part KhoiSan, right? Actually insulting Bushmen just insults myself. > [@](#): > > Even the **Pendant** wouldn’t hurl an ethnic slur like that. [Oh, really?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12628291&postcount=146) > [@](#): > > I’d say you really need to examine yourself more thoroughly before you sling that racist label at others. One known bigot doesn’t like me calling another what he is? Colour me surprised… ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/169 "2010-06-30T10:43:15Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Err, no. I intended to insult him by comparing his insulting abilities to those of people _he_ considers mentally retarded. \*My \*opinion of Bushmen’s intelligence (which is quite a high one) doesn’t enter into it. And it wasn’t just an insulting comparison, it was also the truth - Bushmen make up damn good insults. > That, plus you are aware I’m part KhoiSan, right? Actually insulting Bushmen just insults myself. > [Oh, really?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12628291&postcount=146)One known bigot doesn’t like me calling another what he is? Colour me surprised… I meant that post quite literally, and posted it to mock your hypocrisy. I was a little surprised you didn’t jump on it sooner… I’ve posted repeatedly that the notion that one’s gene pool is an accomplishment is the stuff of idiots, many of whom post here. I don’t walk around in depression that a given white man can’t jump or wake up feeling superior that a given Bushman can’t read. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/170 "2010-06-30T11:07:13Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Stop repeating your useless racist swill to me you twat. You can dress it up in all the pseudo-intellectual crap you want but as someone who has forgotten more about sociology than you have the mental capacity to ever absorb I can tell you are still talking shit. > > You’ve demonstrated none of the many intermediate steps you would have to take to rule out other social drivers. That you have not but reached straight for the racist shit-stick on the basis of your self-professed ‘feelings’ shows your true colours. > > You sir are a clown and an idiot. And a racist not because you argue that there is a genetic component to IQ connected to race but because you reach your conclusions (and by ‘reach’ I mean stampede joyously towards) without proof of any sort,leaping from A straight to F without demonstrating any of the intermediate steps or considering any other options. > > And before you do another of your ‘Half-Educated Clown with Google’ impressions don’t bother. > > No - do bother. It’s funny and helps reinforce the Pedant = Ass meme we want to get going here. This is why you are best suited for posting in the pit. Assorted ravings. Dismissal of data without a shred of argumentation other than name-calling at the level of a 3rd grade bully mimicking adults. Total absence of a single counter data point. The topic is whether differential performances among race-based populations have a substantial genetic basis. When you have found some evidence it is not, feel free to post it in GD. Expertise in coming up with new sociological excuses should not be confused with evidence that differences have been eliminated, anywhere, even when circumstance is adjusted for. Or you can come here and satisfy your need to defend an evidence-less position with vitriol and childish boasting about your own expertise. Perhaps among the things you’ve forgotten is how important actual data can be–like **Zoe** ’s surprise that SAT score differences aren’t due to income or parental education. Or maybe, like **Belowjob2.0** you like to make an assertion you hope is true and never come back with even a single cite to back it up. In any case, feel free to continue sputtering. One suspects you were one of the students with frequent excuses for everything. Good at sputtering; bad at producing. Did the dog eat your homework assignment to find actual data? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/171 "2010-06-30T12:53:25Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > This is why you are best suited for posting in the pit. Assorted ravings. Dismissal of data without a shred of argumentation other than name-calling at the level of a 3rd grade bully mimicking adults. > > In any case, feel free to continue sputtering. One suspects you were one of the students with frequent excuses for everything. Good at sputtering; bad at producing. > > Did the dog eat your homework assignment to find actual data? This is the Pit right? Then bite me ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/172 "2010-06-30T14:29:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > \*My \*opinion of Bushmen’s intelligence (which is quite a high one) doesn’t enter into it. Oh, you are asserting a high intelligence for a particular population. Do tell us just what populations in which you have a lower opinion of their intelligence compared to your high opinion of Bushmen’s intelligence? Thou doth protest too much. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/173 "2010-06-30T15:46:54Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Oh, you are asserting a high intelligence for a particular population. Do tell us just what populations in which you have a lower opinion of their intelligence compared to your high opinion of Bushmen’s intelligence? > > Thou doth protest too much. You know, **Dutchman** , don’t you, that **Mr Dibble** is of half-Khoikhoin ancestry? Or were you not assuming he was backpedaling? Rather, being aware of the fact, I saw it as an _a fortiori_ insult – “Your reasoning skills compare unfavorably to this group related to me and widely though incorrectly assumed to be of low intelligence” being a paraphrase of what he said, or intended. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/174 "2010-06-30T18:42:19Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Oh, you are asserting a high intelligence for a particular population. No, I’m saying I have a high opinion of Bushmen’s intelligence. Not the same thing. Their intelligence doesn’t have to be high for me to have a high opinion of it, just aesthetically pleasing to me. > [@](#): > > Do tell us just what populations in which you have a lower opinion of their intelligence compared to your high opinion of Bushmen’s intelligence? That sentence doesn’t make any grammatical sense…I can’t really parse it. But _if_ you’re asking if there are particular populations whose intelligence I have a low opinion of, no I can’t say there are any I’ve personally encountered that I have less than a neutral impression of. I just have the same high opinion of Bushmen cognitive abilities as Diamond does for New Guineans. They have impressive memories and perception, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/175 "2010-06-30T22:39:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I just have the same high opinion of Bushmen cognitive abilities as Diamond does for New Guineans. They have impressive memories and perception, for instance. This makes as much sense as “People whose names begin with the letter Q have impressive artistic and political abilities.” Take an arbitrarily-defined group of humans, and attribute to them a vaguely-defined set of capacities. Genetics doesn’t enter well at all into EITHER the human group so defined (for whatever purpose), NOR into the vaguely-defined set of capacities (as applied to any human group), so when someone tries to put the two together, it’s twice as lame. And, Jared Diamond NEVER said his New Guinea friends were genetically predisposed toward ANYTHING. His WHOLE POINT was that they grew up in an environmental and social setting where they’d better learn certain things, or they’d be toast. If he, as an infant, had been transported to a New Guinean hunting camp to be raised there, he would have learned that stuff just as well as the friends he so admired. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/176 "2010-06-30T23:43:26Z")
And another thing, Messrs. Pedant and Dibble, Why do we think your arguments are lame? It’s NOT because we don’t have the evidence. And it’s NOT because we are afraid of what the consequences might be if we were wrong. It’s simply because YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE LAME. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/177 "2010-07-01T01:58:36Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > You know, **Dutchman** , don’t you, that **Mr Dibble** is of half-Khoikhoin ancestry? No I didn’t know. He did say he’s part Khoisan, and claims be a Bushman. No problem there. But Khoikhoin are not Bushmen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/178 "2010-07-01T02:05:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, I’m saying I have a high opinion of Bushmen’s intelligence. Not the same thing. Their intelligence doesn’t have to be high for me to have a high opinion of it, just aesthetically pleasing to me. I see. following this explanation, I can assume that you could have a low opinion of someone’s intelligence even if you recognize they are more intelligent than you. Get real ! ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/179 "2010-07-01T02:18:48Z")
There’s an interesting special report I just finished reading in [The Economist](http://www.economist.com/node/16349358), titled Biology 2.0. Included is a sidebar called “The dragon’s DNA” which mentions a study about to be carried out by Beijing Genomics Institute. They plan to look at a handful of genes (about 10% of the total, I think) of a couple thousand students who perform at various levels on standardized tests to see if they can identify any genes which seem to correlate with that skillset. Worth reading if you are interested in the topic. With a little luck, one side or the other will have a reasonable comeuppance within 5 or 10 years, I’d say. Long before we just come out and put into text books that intelligence potential is mostly genetic, we’ll list all the other less politically-sensitive things that are, and it will just be unspoken acceptance that intelligence is as well. I am already surprised that people can accept some phenotypic differences that are more prevalent by race, such as skin color or hair characteristics, but seem to draw a totally artificially line with those sorts of traits… ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794/180 "2010-07-01T03:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I am already surprised that people can accept some phenotypic differences that are more prevalent by race, such as skin color or hair characteristics, but seem to draw a totally artificially line with those sorts of traits… Really? Seriously? You’re not joking here? If not, well, damn, CP. Damn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chief-pendant-go-to-hell-you-retarded-racist/543794.md?page=10)