This guy’s 3 year old is getting abused and he is worried about the legality of a damn tape!?! I would be using that tape as exculpatory evidence at my trial after I killed the bitch.
Here’s the dilemma though - he’s kind of dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn’t.
Let’s say he reports suspected abuse to CPS. They investigate and find nothing, because the mother will deny it and obviously is doing this at home in her bathroom in private and not leaving any evidence. The only evidence was obtained through surreptitious surveillance, and they can’t take action based on this because it was gained improperly.
So CPS investigates and finds nothing. He comes off as a bitter divorced father. The mother WILL retaliate, probably turning the accusations against him, and possibly harming the child more. He could end up losing all custody and visitation. And if the mother found out about the videotaping, she could sue him or bring charges against him, and in the end he will end up worse off than before.
Does it strike anyone else as a double standard? That if it were a mother suspecting sexual abuse by a father against a girl, that it would be different?
How is she going to find out it was he who reported her? They won’t tell. The person making the home visit won’t even know it was him. I reported my ex-roommate years ago, in Illinois, and she still blames “those nosy neighbors”. (Then again, they found no sign of neglect when it was actually happening, so my faith in DCFS is low, but for the opposite reason most people are afraid of them.)
How? By making a phone call that no one knows about? I don’t think so. OTOH, he’s technically got child porn right now, so if he can’t use the videotapes, he’s sorta fucked. He should figure out with his lawyer what to do with them - probably turn them in to the police and take his lumps. That’s what happens when you rush in and try to play Veronica Mars without understanding the law.
Again, how? Assuming he can’t use the videotape, how will she find out about it?
You keep making this assumption. I don’t think it’s true, for what it’s worth. I’d need to see some good evidence to the contrary.
OK so it’s possible she won’t find out about the camera. But she still is going to strongly suspect that the father called CPS. I agree that we don’t have much faith in CPS, they aren’t going to be able to find anything. Skilled and serial abusers know how to hide their crimes.
So I guess let me ask the question from another angle. Let’s say he presents the police with the tape. The police have evidence of a crime being committed. Can they just ignore it (because it’s inadmissible) or do they have the ability to do anything about it? Is it enough cause to bring the woman in for questioning?
I would feel so helpless in this situation.
But that’s a wee bit different. We’re not talking about catching the nanny stealing pills from the medicine cabinet.
What if the business owner put cameras in the bathroom because he had a real reason to believe that one of his customers had attempted to rape an employee in there and he had reason to beleive it would happen again.
My thoughts for the topic would be (remember IANAL) to do whatever he could (though CPS/Police/Lawyer/Judge etc) without the tape first. Just telling these people that he KNOWS it’s going on. Don’t worry about how he knows, just know that he knows (I would assume a lawyer would help with this). Then a copy of the tape can be presented if neccesary. And if this was my kid and I got in trouble for it, another copy of the tape and a nice long statement would be sent to all the major/local media outlets.
But it’s not my kid, so I can’t say for sure this is what I would do, it’s just what I’d like to think it’s what I would do.
I think it could still be considered illegal-from what I gather, you are forbidden from putting security cameras in dressing rooms or bathrooms.
They can and will use the tape to protect the child . Just because the tape may or may not be used as evidence in a criminal trial doesn’t mean CPS can’t use it for their own purposes.
Seems to me that his lawyers are doing their job (the child is not their client). They are protecting their client. Your friend isn’t doing his job as a parent, he is busy covering his ass. I’m not sure if what he did is illegal in IL but I will assume it is due to his lawyers reaction. It is in NJ but that is a recent law. The laws in many states have not caught up to the current level of technology in video technology. He was spying on his ex in the bathroom using a remote camera and internet hook-up. Yes that should be illegal everywhere.
I don’t see a double standard.
IIRC, noted perv Chuck Berry was in trouble for putting cameras in the bathroom of one of his St Loius (?) restaurants- the real problem was not that women were on tape peeing, but that invariably children came in to pee as well.
Well, while he is busy being so concerned about doing things “by the book”, while his friends are busy asking strangers on message boards, while he is busy talking to lawyers and CPS instead of the cops, his 3 year old son’s head is being smashed against a fucking wall.
Good job, dad. Way to look out for your kid. :rolleyes:
Here’s some advice. Go to the house, remove the child from harmful custody, then worry about the fucking rules. If the mom wants the kid back, let her try to call the cops. Make her call CPS. Fuck man. What a pussy ass father.
:smack, smack, smack smack: That’s the sound of his child’s fucking head while you’re busy reading this and he’s busy waiting for you to deliver the great advice you obtained from strangers.
Is your friend suspected of child porn or something like that? Could that be why he can’t reveal he had a hidden camera in the bathroom?
I know. I was just trying to point out the inconsistincies (<-that’s gotta be spelled wrong) with that argument.
Anyways, I agree with some of the other posters, Dad’s doing alot of dicking around and not enough protecting. Maybe YOU (the OP) need to take a step up and call CPS on his behalf and get the ball rolling. BTW how does someone with all these mental problems get custody to begin with?
In the mean time, maybe Dad (after consulting with the lawyer of course) needs to move the camera somewhere else where it is legal.
I agree this is terribly frustrating, and one would think that this dad should be doing everything he can. Remember this is my good friend’s cousin, and so I don’t know all the details. Everything I know is third-hand. She is trying to help him. She agrees she needs to start making calls on his behalf because he really doesn’t appear to be doing all he could.
We just thought it was so strange that he has video evidence of abuse, yet his lawyers tell him NOT to go to the police. It does make me wonder whether there are other factors he is not telling his cousin (my friend) about. It also makes me wonder why he doesn’t go as fast as he can to the police or at least to CPS. I will keep you posted.
I think the question here is-would this count, being this was his own private residence. In Berry’s case, it was a public spot.
Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer. But from my amateur understanding of the law: The exclusionary rule only applies to POLICE action, and cannot be asserted if a third party that’s not an agent of the state violates your privacy. The evidence is almost certainly admissable in court, though the person making the tape may face some sanctions.
I say, definitely turn it in.
The dad needs to grow a pair. I don’t understand why he’s dicking around on this. It makes me wonder. If, when he was living in the home, he saw his wife abusing the child, such as yanking him from his crib and shaking him, why would the guy put the camera in the bathroom? Why not the kids room or the living room? Perhaps he was up to no good with the camera, say spying on the ex when he inadvertantly caught the abuse. Could this be why there is an issue with forwarding the evidence to the authorities?
Call me crazy but if I had to rescue my child from my spouse in the middle of the night, I’d be grabbing my kid and getting the hell out post haste.
I don’t think you’re getting the full story nyctea.
I feel bad for the kid. 
And the most likely reason for that is that its not true and this is a way of trying to put the word out to people who know both of them shes a ‘nutcase’ because he has ‘proof’.
Other possibilities are that the video is unclear enough that he’s possibly imagining it or that it could be explained away by a defense lawyer, meaning he ends up like a stalker/voyeur without any action being taken by CPS.
If I was in that situation Id be wondering if I needed to warn the woman and be possibly trying to find out a bit more about the whole situation. Theres no obligation for confidentiality and its a good chance thats hes the nutjob not her, given how fishy the whole story sounds.
Otara
Well said. Nothing more to add, get the kid out and run to Mexico if that’s what it takes, fuck the rules, your kid is being abused for christ’s sake.
Well, maybe he can approach the wife with the evidence. A little scare tactic can go a long way.
However, if he lands his ass in jail for child porn charges, he’s not going to be helping his kid at all. He needs to document every interaction with this woman. And he might want to consult a second or third lawyer.
And he needs to get that camera out of the house.
Or say, went to the cops the first time he saw it?
He witnessed it. Forget about the tape. He should consult his lawyers (and take their advice) about what he should do to protect his child when he has witnessed such abuse and unstable behavior.