# Child indulgence is child abuse: you're raising pea-intolerant prince(sses **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186 "2010-02-23T22:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/1 "2010-02-23T22:31:53Z")
(Okay, first of all I need to know: is there a collective term for the children of monarchs that encompasses both sexes simultaneously?) This is gonna be short, because I dont’ have the time. But here’s the thing: all you parents of my generation who had your kids kinda late, and as a result you just loooooooooove them soooooooooooo much you just can’t STAND to see them suffer the slings and arrows of being human, so you pad their world on every side to protect them from the pain and suffering that the world will otherwise dish out? STOP IT. You are ABUSING your children. Shut up and listen. Pay close attention… all that effort you are putting into making sure that they always feel like winners, no matter how badly they perform, allt hat self-esteem you are making sure to shore up, all that stuff you give them just because you can and why should they go without? Here’s what it does: it ensures that by the time they become adults, they will be completely unequipped to handle real life, and as a result of having this twinkly perfect childhood for 18 years, THEY WILL BE MISERABLE HUMAN BEINGS FOR THE NEXT 60!! Yes. They will. They will be battered and brutalized by the most insignificant disappointments, and completely unprepared to cope with anything really difficult. By making their childhoods all cushy and delightful, you are dooming them to a lifetime of , at the very best, perpetual dissatisfaction. At worse, nonstop misery. Life is hard. We fail, we fall down, we lose, things hurt, we get rejected. The whole POINT of a long a childhood is to learn how to deal with those realities a little bit at a time, so that when we grow up we can be happy even when the shit is flying. So stop torturing your kids, let 'em bleed, and watch them grow up to be healthy, happy, whole adults that know how to handle not getting what they want without falling apart. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/2 "2010-02-23T22:40:35Z")
Sounds good to me. But what’s the excuse for cry-baby babyboomers? Same thing? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/3 "2010-02-23T22:41:56Z")
Oh, blah, blah, blah. 1995 called, and it wants its rant back. (Yeah, I know, it also called and wants its joke back. Tough.) Having had some personal experience with _actual_ child abuse, I’ll politely tell you to take your overblown hyperbole and… what am I allowed to say in this forum? Take it and gently shred it into little bits and let those little bits flutter away in the breeze like beautiful butterflies. That should be permissible. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/4 "2010-02-23T22:43:25Z")
[double-post] ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/5 "2010-02-23T22:45:22Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > Cite? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/6 "2010-02-23T22:55:29Z")
I agree with the OP 100%. I’ll go even further to say that not only are these parents abusing their children, they’re abusing the rest of us as well who have to interact with these clueless, entitled idiots. I call it the Asshole Generation. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/7 "2010-02-23T23:00:56Z")
Agree with the sentiment of the OP, disagree with the use of “abuse”. Overusing a word robs it of its meaning. Abuse is abuse. Raising a spoiled brat (assuming that’s all that’s wrong) is not abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/8 "2010-02-23T23:01:34Z")
Still bitter about your parents never removing the pea, eh? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/9 "2010-02-23T23:03:18Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I agree with the OP 100%. I’ll go even further to say that not only are these parents abusing their children, they’re abusing the rest of us as well who have to interact with these clueless, entitled idiots. I call it the Asshole Generation. Assholes, yes. Abusers, no. Someone who sends his kid to the emergency room with broken bones on a regular basis is a child abuser. Someone who raises their kid to be an entitled princess is just an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/10 "2010-02-24T00:44:19Z")
Also, I’m pretty sure “The Asshole Generation” is always the one right after yours. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/11 "2010-02-24T00:51:26Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Assholes, yes. Abusers, no. Someone who sends his kid to the emergency room with broken bones on a regular basis is a child abuser. Someone who raises their kid to be an entitled princess is just an asshole. You know who else was unable to recognize hyperbole? That’s right. Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/12 "2010-02-24T00:52:44Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Also, I’m pretty sure “The Asshole Generation” is always the one right after yours. Yeah, with all them listening to that hippity-hoppity music and stuff. Back in our day, we had rock and roll, which definitely had the parental seal of approval… ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/13 "2010-02-24T00:53:13Z")
You know, I teach High School, and I like kids today more than I liked the ones of my generation (late Gen X). We were all latchkey kids, raised by the TV because adults were always at work, left to navigate our own way through high school. We were “cool”, savvy, cynical and world-weary. We didn’t want to be a member of any group willing to accept us. We saw ourselves as powerless and the adult superstructure around us as basically vacant of meaning or value. We certainly didn’t feel connected to it. That’s not at all what the kids I teach are like. Yes, many of them are a little too catered to: both parents at every baseball game since they were 6, the same level of material comfort as their parents (the days where parents ate steak while kids ate hamburger are long gone), a deep down sense that what they do is important because it’s them doing it, and of course anyone would be interested in that. But they are engaged in the world. They see themselves as having a place in the world. They envision themselves as adults in a way that my generation really seemed to struggle with. They probably overvalue their own work/effort, but they are willing to work hard and believe it has value. Passion for life–nerdiness, if you will–is ok, and while a passion for football is still more socially acceptable than a passion for Lord Of the Rings, it’s still a change from my day, when enthusiasm of any kind wasn’t really hip. They do feel entitled. They have the audacity to ask for things that my generation never would have dreamed of. But they are willing to do their part. I like these kids. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/14 "2010-02-24T01:09:12Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > You know, I teach High School, and I like kids today more than I liked the ones of my generation (late Gen X). We were all latchkey kids, raised by the TV because adults were always at work, left to navigate our own way through high school. We were “cool”, savvy, cynical and world-weary. We didn’t want to be a member of any group willing to accept us. We saw ourselves as powerless and the adult superstructure around us as basically vacant of meaning or value. We certainly didn’t feel connected to it. > > That’s not at all what the kids I teach are like. Yes, many of them are a little too catered to: both parents at every baseball game since they were 6, the same level of material comfort as their parents (the days where parents ate steak while kids ate hamburger are long gone), a deep down sense that what they do is important because it’s them doing it, and of course anyone would be interested in that. > > But they are engaged in the world. They see themselves as having a place in the world. They envision themselves as adults in a way that my generation really seemed to struggle with. They probably overvalue their own work/effort, but they are willing to work hard and believe it has value. Passion for life–nerdiness, if you will–is ok, and while a passion for football is still more socially acceptable than a passion for Lord Of the Rings, it’s still a change from my day, when enthusiasm of any kind wasn’t really hip. > > They do feel entitled. They have the audacity to ask for things that my generation never would have dreamed of. But they are willing to do their part. I like these kids. This gives me some hope, but I sense that you may be overgeneralizing just a bit. There were plenty of Gen Xers that didn’t struggle for an identity as you claim, although I agree with your general sentiment. I was one of them kind of as you describe, but I knew and was friends with plenty of well-adjusted kids. I also happen to think that the OP (generally speaking) is also correct. The pervasion and inundation of television, video games, cellphones and all sorts of attention-diverting technology has become sacrosanct in Western society. 11 year olds “need” a cellphone and a Nintendo DS, etcetera. It is what it is, but in the end, it all comes back to parenting. Limits. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/15 "2010-02-24T01:21:50Z")
A surprising rant for the OP. We can only pray that somehow this next generation can prove even half as emotionally balanced or functional as adults. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/16 "2010-02-24T01:25:52Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > This gives me some hope, but I sense that you may be overgeneralizing just a bit. There were plenty of Gen Xers that didn’t struggle for an identity as you claim, although I agree with your general sentiment. I was one of them kind of as you describe, but I knew and was friends with plenty of well-adjusted kids. > > I also happen to think that the OP (generally speaking) is also correct. The pervasion and inundation of television, video games, cellphones and all sorts of attention-diverting technology has become sacrosanct in Western society. 11 year olds “need” a cellphone and a Nintendo DS, etcetera. > > It is what it is, but in the end, it all comes back to parenting. Limits. Of course I’m generalizing. My general point is that kids that are over-indulged seem to turn out better–both happier and more productive–than ones raised on a “quality time” philosophy. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s civilization isn’t going to hell in a handbasket. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/17 "2010-02-24T01:33:42Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Of course I’m generalizing. My general point is that kids that are over-indulged seem to turn out better–both happier and more productive–than ones raised on a “quality time” philosophy. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s civilization isn’t going to hell in a handbasket. You really think that over-indulged children have a better chance at “turning out better” than ones that say, learn the value of a dollar and hard work from a less “white-collar” family? Really? I see it the opposite way (if that’s indeed what you are saying). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/18 "2010-02-24T01:37:46Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Also, I’m pretty sure “The Asshole Generation” is always the one right after yours. Always 😃 - “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” (Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato) “I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words… When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint” (Hesiod, 8th century BC). \* The more things change, the more they stay the same. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/19 "2010-02-24T01:56:06Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > You really think that over-indulged children have a better chance at “turning out better” than ones that say, learn the value of a dollar and hard work from a less “white-collar” family? Really? I see it the opposite way (if that’s indeed what you are saying). No, I’m saying that in the late 70s and 80s, yuppies left their kids at home to fend for themselves while mom and dad both worked 80 hours weeks up the corporate ladder. It was good to be _busy_: people would say, with a straight face, that it was ok not to see your kids that often, as long as the time you spent together was “quality time”. When I was in high school, no one’s dad left work early to watch their sons play baseball–now, it’s expected. Kids think they matter–that they are a force in the world–because their parents teach them that they d, that they are, and while there are problems with that attitude, I think it’s better for the character overall than neglect, and learning that nothing you do really matters at all or is even noticed. And you know what? I teach at a school with a wide economic range of students–60%+ on free or reduced lunch, and 15% who come from truly wealthy families–kids with six figure college funds that live in $5 million dollar homes. And I’ve discovered that money makes no difference at all. I’ve know some real spoiled rich brats–kids that seem like parodies of the stereotype, kids who really think they shit gold because their parents make a lot of money. But I’ve also seen rich kids who have an incredible sense of responsibility, who are generous and kind and tolerant, who recognize the advantages they have had and feel an obligation to make the most of those advantages. Yes, they often still feel entitled–they assume you care about how their day went, that you live to help them to better, that you are emotionally invested in them. They absolutely feel like they have a place at any (metaphorical) table. And that gets annoying. But man, are they willing to meet you half way. I had a student last year, from a wealthy, wealthy family, who studied his ass off for ELEVEN AP tests (all of which he made 4s or 5s on) even though he had already been accepted to Harvard and they wouldn’t give him any AP credit. Why did he work so hard? He made a commitment to take those courses and those tests, and he wanted to see it through, to see if he could master them. I’ve known some great poor kids. Kids who came to this country from refugee camps, and play the role of adult in a household where they are the only ones that speak English. Kids who work full time and turn their entire checks over to their parents to pay the bills, and never complain, kids with those sorts of responsibilities who humble me with the way they stay dedicated to their education despite all the forces calling them away. I’ve had kids who were homeless for weeks and no one knew because they didn’t complain and kept their grades up. And I’ve known some poor sons of bitches, as well. Kids who are angry every day at what they don’t have, kids who don’t see any point in trying because they are happy with their life the way it is, kids who would steal $2 from a friend because they wanted a coke and honestly not see anything wrong with it. I just don’t see money making any difference in a kid’s ultimate character. Rich and poor both build and warp. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186/20 "2010-02-24T02:03:22Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > [snip] > (Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato) > [snip] > (Hesiod, 8th century BC). > [snip] > > The more things change, the more they stay the same. John Locke also had some thoughts that seem on point (Even about the spoiling): > [@](#): > > The great mistake I have observ’d in people’s breeding their children, has been, that this has not been taken care enough of in its due season: that the mind has not been made obedient to discipline, and pliant to reason, when at first it was most tender, most easy to be bow’d. Parents being wisely ordain’d by nature to love their children, are very apt, if reason watch not that natural affection very warily, are apt, I say, to let it run into fondness. They love their little ones and it is their duty; but they often, with them, cherish their faults too. They must not be cross’d, forsooth; they must be permitted to have their wills in all things; and they being in their infancies not capable of great vices, their parents think they may safe enough indulge their irregularities, and make themselves sport with that pretty perverseness which they think well enough becomes that innocent age. But to a fond parent, that would not have his child corrected for a perverse trick, but excus’d it, saying it was a small matter, Solon very well reply’d, aye, but custom is a great one. 51 > § 35. The fondling must be taught to strike and call names, must have what he cries for, and do what he pleases. Thus parents, by humouring and cockering them when little, corrupt the principles of nature in their children, and wonder afterwards to taste the bitter waters, when they themselves have poison’d the fountain. For when their children are grown up, and these ill habits with them; when they are now too big to be dandled, and their parents can no longer make use of them as play-things, then they complain that the brats are untoward and perverse; then they are offended to see them wilful, and are troubled with those ill humours which they themselves infus’d and fomented in them . . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-indulgence-is-child-abuse-youre-raising-pea-intolerant-prince-sses/530186.md?page=2)