# Child Molesting Priest Killed In Prison **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223 "2003-08-23T21:29:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/21 "2003-08-23T23:15:41Z")
This fellow went beyond the ordinary child molestor (if one could be ‘ordinary’). Of the hundreds or thousands of known pedophiles in the prison system, most do not get killed. ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/22 "2003-08-23T23:18:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kambuckta \* > \*\*Oh, it’s not just in the US that people ‘applaud’ rough justice. Many here in Aus feel that protected offenders should NOT be given such privileges, and that they should be thrown into the melee to await their deserved fate. \*\* Same here in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Read\_Neck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Read\_Neck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Read_Neck)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/23 "2003-08-23T23:36:38Z")
Why does everyone assume Geoghan was killed because he was a child molester? Inmates get beaten and killed every day by other inmates.for many reasons. Wishfull thinking,maybe? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/24 "2003-08-23T23:39:36Z")
My mother always told me to speak good of the dead…John Geoghan is dead…Good. ---
**Author:** ![jujuju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@jujuju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jujuju)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/25 "2003-08-24T00:00:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > \*\*It’s well known in prison lore that child molesters are at the absolute rock bottom of the brutal pecking order. This news is no surprise at all. Jeff Dahmer, another notorious child molester, met a similar fate in prison. In the pen it’s perpetual open season on child molesters. Nobody will take their side; everybody feels entitled to take a shot at them. No tears are shed for them, and not the least bit of sympathy can be expected from anyone. The consensus seems to be that the molesters have canceled their membership in the human race. This world can sure be one hell of a bitter, grim existence for those who bring this on themselves. Let it be a reminder to the rest of us to treat one another decently and compassionately, and help to relieve one another’s suffering. \*\* i saw a documentary once where this question was asked of the inmates. my memory is a little foggy on this and i don’t have a cite, but i remember that the inmates agreed that it was open season on child molesters. then the reporter asked if any of the inmates had themselves been molested as children, and every one of them raised their hand. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/26 "2003-08-24T00:27:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Love Me, Vol. I \* > \*\*kambuckta– > Someday, I hope, such barbarianism will not be tolerated. For now though, it is usually applauded. \*\* Hopefully the barbarianism of them being allowed to molest children in the first place will be eradicated FIRST. That is the TRUE barbarianism. That they are then treated as they treated their victims? Justice. Pure, sweet, and true. I wish they had NOT killed this guy. I wish he’d lived a GOOD LONG LIFE getting what he did to those little boys every day and night of his life. They’re sick, untreatable monsters, and they deserve what they get. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/27 "2003-08-24T00:28:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jwhee \* > \*\*i saw a documentary once where this question was asked of the inmates. my memory is a little foggy on this and i don’t have a cite, but i remember that the inmates agreed that it was open season on child molesters. then the reporter asked if any of the inmates had themselves been molested as children, and every one of them raised their hand. \*\* I have seen similar documentaries that state that the offenders are put in the general population, but the reason they’re there is hushed up or changed. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/28 "2003-08-24T00:33:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > **They’re sick, untreatable monsters,** I agree that child molestation is horrible. I ask for a ‘cite’ re: untreatable. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/29 "2003-08-24T00:36:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **Tucker in your OP you queary how the Church will react to “this” (referring to the story about the guys’ death). I answered that question.** No, you posted a comment by a Church official on the matter. JP II hasn’t weighted in on the matter yet, so the Church _can’t_ be said to have a final response to this. \*\* > [@](#): > > To which I then responded that as far as I could see, one individual former priests death would be likely to have little effect on church policies\*\* So you’re psychic? Good, what’s the winning numbers for the Kentucky lottery? \*\* > [@](#): > > that AFAIK from news reports, that the church had made quite sweeping changes in their policies wrt even accusations about priest sexual conduct. (though I admit that I didn’t specify ‘priest sexual conduct’, since that’s the topic under discussion).\*\* Which many victims organizations have said they’re quite disappointed with. (Sadly, I can’t seem to find the right phrases to key into google to find any of their websites to see if they’re still maintaining this position.) \*\* > [@](#): > > you then reply w;/ “tell it to them”, wherein you cite stories where **former victims** , were not happy w/the church’s settlement 'cause they wanted to confront their accusers and get specific appologies etc. > > to which I answered , again attempting to follow your ever changing line of issues, that if the offender is no longer a priest and in prison, it wouldn’t seem that the church would have any possability of being able to require such a thing, and in any event, it wasn’t at all related to your prior points.\*\* Gee, let’s look at this for a moment, shall we? 1. We have a member of an organization who commited crimes while a member of the organization. This is _not_ just any organization as far as many folks are concerned. This organization is the _Earthly manifestation of God._ Additionally, this organization has _actively_ conspired to cover up similar actions by other members in the past. Now, the folks responsible for the cover up must have had _reasons_ for this, else they wouldn’t have done this. And it wasn’t a case of one or two incidents, which could be blamed on a few bad actors, no, this was _tens of thousands_ (possibly more if you want to throw in the European branches of the Church) of similar incidents. This means that there’s a _culture which encourages these cover ups._ Ever seen a _large_ organization make a quick change in direction? I haven’t. 2. Said member gets busted for his crimes in a rather nasty scandal, which shakes the Church up. (Tithes are _down_ at many Catholic Churches because of this.) The Church makes a few gestures in hopes of appeasing the members (which is only somewhat successful). 3. Said member gets sent to prison, where he is killed. He is the _second_ member to commit such crimes to be killed. The question is: What will the Church do? Will it “circle the wagons” and try to protect it’s officials (hmmm, what have they done in the past?) or will it continue to expell priests tainted by scandal? Remember, now, we’re talking about an organization which actively protected abusive priests for decades, and only began to take action when pressure from laypersons and the Government was brought to bear on the Church. It seems likely that had such pressure _not_ been brought to bear on the Church, it would have _continued_ to protect abusive priests. Had the Church started expelling abusive priests _without_ external pressure, then I would expect the Church to continue to do so. _However_, that is **not** the case. The Church was essentially _forced_ into “outing” abusive priests, this leads me to believe that it’s entirely possible that they will conspire to cover up such actions again in the future. Remember, we’re _not_ talking about the most “progressive” organization on Earth, here. We’re talking about a group of folks who question birth control and homosexuality. \*\* > [@](#): > > Tell ya what - > I get that you’re mad about the Church’s history of cover ups. I’m with you there. > > I get that you’re mad about child molesters in general. again, I’m with you. > > I get that you’re not convinced that the church’s **new** policies will be actually used. What I don’t see is evidence that their new policies wrt: new accusations has been violated. \*\* It’s too soon to tell, I’m afraid. Hopefully, they _haven’t_. I hope you won’t blame me, though, if I don’t hold my breath. \*\* > [@](#): > > I also get that you may not be happy w/the church’s responses to the list of folks already identified has having been victimized. Not sure, at all, however, how you think this one particular guys death figures into any of the above. \*\* In case you’re still in the dark about my reasons, let me add a few more: There’s been _lots_ of cases where someone has committed a particular heinous act, and folks who’ve known this individual have said, “But XYZ was a nice _person_! Sure, he/she may have done something bad, but they’re still a nice person and don’t deserve this kind of punishment.” I’m certain that some of the members of the Church who covered up various priests’ activities had the same kind of thoughts about the priest they were protecting. He simply made a “mistake” and they didn’t want to expose him because it would ruin his career/make the Church look bad, so they covered up what he did and packed him off to another parish. _Now_, however, do they not only have to think about ruining his career, they have to worry about sending him to his _death!_ Considering that Church policy is _against_ the death penalty, do you see where a Church official might have a problem with reporting a priest he suspects of abusing children? Just because the Church has removed a man from the priesthood doesn’t mean that they’ve given up on him. It’s not like he was fired from his job at some company. He is (in the eyes of the Church) a Lamb of God who has gone astray. The Church’s goal is redemption of sinners, _not_ the meting out of justice. ---
**Author:** ![widdershins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@widdershins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdershins)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/30 "2003-08-24T00:45:20Z")
**Read\_Neck** , it may be wishful thinking, but Geoghan was probably the most visible face among offenders in the recent pedophile priest media coverage. He hadn’t been in prison very long, and even prisoners get to see the TV news and read newspapers sometimes. He may have been killed for other reasons, but it seems pretty unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/31 "2003-08-24T00:58:13Z")
**Tucker** you’ve spent a lot of time typing out stuff after my comments. You apparently believe that the only acceptable answer to ‘what is the church’s response’ is when JPII answers says something? A church representative commented on the event. I doubt that there will be further comment higher up. There’d be no particular reason to do so. But, my response was a perfectly valid response to the question you posed in your OP. Pretending now that your real question was different than posed, doesn’t change that. You seem to understand that the Church has had significant losses due to their prior mishandling of priest misconduct: money, press, membership etc. In this latest post, you seem to be advocating the position that the Church “should”/“will” attempt to avoid having the priests be sent to prison since they ‘could’ be killed, etc etc etc. Your passion on this subject is evident. But everytime you respond, you seem to change what you’re getting at. I took it step by step last time. and you attempted to respond to me here. But, like I just said, you seem to at the end, be suggesting that the consistent position for the CHurch to take is to advocate no prison due to the possability of the priest being killed. I don’t think that’s what you really want to have happen. Nor do I see any remote possability that the Church will indeed do that. Do you have evidence to suggest that they would (Other than your lack of trust in them, which I understand)? Remember, the Church does not come out against young men joining in the military, where it’s quite likely that many will die. The Church is, AFAIK against capital punishment, but that’s different than this situation. They’re against murder, as well. So, I suspect that they would not be in favor of advocating the murder of prisoners, but that is a far cry from advancing the position that they’d actively stall prosecution/imprisonment due to the _possability_ that some one might be killed. and to accuse them of doing that, you really should have a bit more than you’ve presented. As far as the advocacy groups desires - it’s probable that they’re not internally consistent let alone externally. Given the nature of the issue, it’s very likely (IMHO) that victims won’t all be happy or agree with results. Bottom line, I don’t have a clue what you’re arguing w/me about. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/32 "2003-08-24T01:31:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*I agree that child molestation is horrible. > > I ask for a ‘cite’ re: untreatable. \*\* Scrolling to the top of the page… …(is this the pit???) …arriving at the top of the page. YUP, this is the pit. I thought so. This is one of those things that’s been studied and made available to the public through the news, reports, AMA, etc forever. I would have thought everyone knew about it. But then as a victim I guess maybe I’ve done a little more reading than the average joe on the subject. This is one of the reasons they, they meaning the legal/penal system, registers these creeps and keep tabs on them, once they are let out of prison, They don’t stop molesting. And in many cases their molesting escalates as they get older. Most modern studies on human sexuality and aberration show that the cure rate for these creatures is very low, if there are any at all. Sometimes they’re just able to fake a cure, and just become very good at hiding it. Saaaaay, isn’t that what they’ve been finding out about all these priests lately? That they get moved to a different parish and suddenly VOILA!! They’re cured? I can’t think of a bad enough thing to call them, or do to them. Otherwise I’d be very “UNshoeslike” and post every profanity I know where they’re concerned. But, that just wouldn’t do the trick. Calling them any foul name would only insult tbose who came honestly by those foul names. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/33 "2003-08-24T01:35:21Z")
yep, it’s the Pit. Doesn’t mean you can’t be asked for a cite. Doesn’t mean that you get to say “all the studies say so” as a response to one. if it’s as well documented as you claim, my request for proof shouldn’t pose any problem. let’s see it. Peer review, not op ed piece, please. (I’m sure there’s any number of OP ed pieces that make that same claim) ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/34 "2003-08-24T01:35:40Z")
## quote: Originally posted by wring I agree that child molestation is horrible. ## I ask for a ‘cite’ re: untreatable. Oh wait!!! Silly me, I DID say “untreatable” didn’t I? I’m wrong, they “treat” these guys all the time. They send them to “support groups” and give them medicine, and pat them on the heads and let them cry on their shoulders. It’s just too bad that it doesn’t work and that our tax dollars are wasted in the attempt. My bad. I meant “inCURABLE”. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/35 "2003-08-24T01:36:47Z")
What the hell does “OP ed” mean? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/36 "2003-08-24T01:37:48Z")
same thing. “cite” for “uncurable” (assuming that ‘uncurable’ means that treatment is not effective. that all molesters molest again, with or without treatment). ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/37 "2003-08-24T01:39:42Z")
“Op ed” = Opinion/editorial. like I said, I’m sure there’s no shortage of “Op/ed” pieces making that same statement. I saw it in a national news mag once, too. Called them on it, as well. they made the statement but offered no proof, no reference to studies etc. Trust me, this population has been studied and categoried for years and years. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/38 "2003-08-24T01:41:59Z")
Let’s try this again, you said “no op ed” cites, (pssst, it’s incurable, not _UN_curable), so you want me to return proof in the form of no what type of cites? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/39 "2003-08-24T01:49:40Z")
studies, peer reviewed studies, by scientists, sociologists, that sort of thing, ya know, proof. If it’s as well known as you seem to believe that it is, there shouldn’t be any difficulty with that. Nor should you find it difficult to understand what is generally considered to be ‘proof’ around here. (I’ll promise to make more typos if it gives you that much pleasure). ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223/40 "2003-08-24T01:56:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\ ***Tucker** you’ve spent a lot of time typing out stuff after my comments. > > You apparently believe that the only acceptable answer to ‘what is the church’s response’ is when JPII answers says something? A church representative commented on the event. I doubt that there will be further comment higher up. There’d be no particular reason to do so. But, my response was a perfectly valid response to the question you posed in your OP. Pretending now that your real question was different than posed, doesn’t change that.\*\* Who’s pretending? Is not possible for you to believe that my question was _rather open ended and **not** simply looking for whatever statement is first issued moments after the death was announced?_ **Nowhere** in my OP did I insert a time limit or a specifier saying that I was curious about what the Church’s initial statement of this event was going to be. As for my comment about JP II, last time I checked, it _wasn’t official Church doctrine until the sitting Pope put his stamp on it._ Remember the Council of Bishops that passed the resolution on how to deal with abusive priests? It had to go to JP II for approval, and JP II reworked it, before agreeing to it. \*\* > [@](#): > > You seem to understand that the Church has had significant losses due to their prior mishandling of priest misconduct: money, press, membership etc. In this latest post, you seem to be advocating the position that the Church “should”/“will” attempt to avoid having the priests be sent to prison since they ‘could’ be killed, etc etc etc. \*\* Whoa, pal! Never said anything about “should.” I said that I _thought it might be possible that they would do so._ **Nowhere** did I post anything **remotely** resembling the statement which you seem to be implying,namely that I think the Catholic Church should cover up such molestations to protect priests. There’s a reason for that. I **don’t** think the Church should hide priests who molest, in fact, I think that those who conspired to cover up those priests actions should be dealt with in the same manner as Geoghan. \*\* > [@](#): > > Your passion on this subject is evident. But everytime you respond, you seem to change what you’re getting at.\*\* Cite? Point out where I contradicted myself. I have _expanded_ upon some of my statements, that is all. \*\* > [@](#): > > I took it step by step last time. and you attempted to respond to me here. But, like I just said, you seem to at the end, be suggesting that the consistent position for the CHurch to take is to advocate no prison due to the possability of the priest being killed. I don’t think that’s what you really want to have happen.\*\* At least you’ve managed to figure out that much.\*\* > [@](#): > > Nor do I see any remote possability that the Church will indeed do that. Do you have evidence to suggest that they would (Other than your lack of trust in them, which I understand)?\*\* Nope, no evidence at all, other than their past behaviour, which is pretty lengthy. As I stated, it’s too soon to tell. Most of the accusations against the priests didn’t come out until _years or decades after the abuse occured._ It will, in all likelihood be the same amount of time before we can say that the reforms have stuck. \*\* > [@](#): > > Remember, the Church does not come out against young men joining in the military, where it’s quite likely that many will die.\*\* The Church has come down _against_ war, however. The Pope condemned the first Gulf War, and IIRC, was opposed to our intervention in Afghanistan. (To use two examples which involved wars not as hotly contested as our most recent one.)\*\* [/quote] The Church is, AFAIK against capital punishment, but that’s different than this situation. They’re against murder, as well. So, I suspect that they would not be in favor of advocating the murder of prisoners, but that is a far cry from advancing the position that they’d actively stall prosecution/imprisonment due to the _possability_ that some one might be killed. and to accuse them of doing that, you really should have a bit more than you’ve presented.\*\* [/quote] Why? Is this a court of law? I don’t think so. You cannot deny that it’s possible that some Church official _will_ use such justification for keeping quiet. After all, they quite _clearly_ have a history of covering up abuse in the past when the stakes weren’t quite so high. \*\* > [@](#): > > As far as the advocacy groups desires - it’s probable that they’re not internally consistent let alone externally. Given the nature of the issue, it’s very likely (IMHO) that victims won’t all be happy or agree with results. \*\* True, but the comments I’ve heard from them make more sense than those I’ve heard from the Vatican on the matter. \*\* > [@](#): > > Bottom line, I don’t have a clue what you’re arguing w/me about. \*\* Does the possibility that I _don’t_ like people distorting what I say not mean anything to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-molesting-priest-killed-in-prison/197223.md?page=3)