# Child perps in "slenderman" stabbing case to be tried as adults. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588 "2015-08-11T20:50:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/1 "2015-08-11T20:50:04Z")
[It’s being reported](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/slender-man-stabbing/judge-rules-girls-slender-man-case-be-tried-adults-n407351) that the two 13YO girls charged in the ‘Slenderman’ stabbing case, who were 12 years old at the time of the incident, are going to be tried as adults for attempted murder. What is the legal basis/justification for charging these kids as adults? ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/2 "2015-08-11T21:13:40Z")
Wisconsin law gives the regular adult criminal courts original jurisdiction over murders committed by children 10 or older. [Wisconsin Legislature: 938.183](http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/938/III/183) If the child wants the case moved to a juvenile proceeding, the child has to prove in preliminary hearings by a preponderance of the evidence that (a) if convicted, the juvenile could not receive adequate treatment in the criminal justice system; (b) That transferring the case to juvenile court would not depreciate the seriousness of the offense; and (c) that trying the case in adult court is not necessary to deter the child or other children from committing the same crime. > **[Wisconsin Legislature: 970.032](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/970/032)** > > Criminal Procedure — Preliminary Proceedings Presumably, the judge in the adult court felt that trying this case in juvenile court would not be serious enough because it would lead to, at most, only a few years’ imprisonment, or that it trying the case in adult court was the only way to deter kids from committing other murders. As a policy matter, we give kids the benefit of the doubt on minor crimes. We feel that their judgment is generally not good enough to recognize the consequences of their actions and thus, we feel that processes for levying punishment on adults, and the severity of that punishment, is improper for children who can be redeemed. I think in the case of murder and similarly heinous crimes, legislators feel that even emotionally immature children recognize that these acts are wrong and have terrible consequences, so it is fair to treat even children as having sufficient judgment to not commit those crimes. The legislators feel that if kids can commit such a serious crime, they can pay the same serious price an adult would pay. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/3 "2015-08-11T21:18:43Z")
As far as I can tell, Wisconsin law only allows minors 14 and above (at the time of the offense) to be tried as adults under Wis. Stats. § 938.18. I can’t figure out what authority allows the judge to waive juvenile proceedings for 12 year olds. ETA: Ah. There is a separate section for children charged with intentional homicides who were 10 or older cited by **Tired and Cranky**. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/4 "2015-08-11T21:24:41Z")
I forgot to say that the original jurisdiction provision applies to both murders and attempted murders like in the slenderman case. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/5 "2015-08-11T21:29:18Z")
A follow up question: what happens to young kids tried as adults if they are convicted and sentenced to terms of imprisionment? Are they simply placed in the general prison population like any other adult, or sent to a specialized juvenile prision? I assume the latter, as it would seem an awfully bad idea to place a 13 year old in with adult prisioners. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/6 "2015-08-11T21:35:25Z")
Typically, minors who are convicted as adults are held in the same facilities as adult offenders but are separated from the general population. I presume that varies from state to state though. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/7 "2015-08-11T21:42:52Z")
Note the victim was stabbed 19 times; she was very lucky not to be killed. > [@Malthus](#): > > A follow up question: what happens to young kids tried as adults if they are convicted and sentenced to terms of imprisionment? > [@](#): > > If convicted in adult court, they would remain in a juvenile facility until they turned 18. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/10/slender-man-stabbing-13-year-old-wisconsin-girls-will-be-tried-as-adults/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/10/slender-man-stabbing-13-year-old-wisconsin-girls-will-be-tried-as-adults/) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/8 "2015-08-11T21:47:48Z")
Thanks - I thought it would be something like that. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/9 "2015-08-11T22:26:42Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > [It’s being reported](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/slender-man-stabbing/judge-rules-girls-slender-man-case-be-tried-adults-n407351) that the two 13YO girls charged in the ‘Slenderman’ stabbing case, who were 12 years old at the time of the incident, are going to be tried as adults for attempted murder. > > What is the legal basis/justification for charging these kids as adults? Prosecutors have a duty to avoid cases that would be considered unwinnable. Maybe this one thought the little psychopaths were just too young to try for the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/10 "2015-08-12T03:34:21Z")
So if adults in Wisconsin commit petty crimes, are they tried as juveniles? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/11 "2015-08-12T03:48:10Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Prosecutors have a duty to avoid cases that would be considered unwinnable. Maybe this one thought the little psychopaths were just too young to try for the death penalty. That’s because they _are_ too young for the death penalty. I believe the Supreme Court ruled that the death penalty cannot be applied to anyone who was under 18 at the time they committed the offense. Psychopaths or not. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/12 "2015-08-12T04:16:24Z")
At least one of the girls has been found incompetent. [http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/justice/wisconsin-stabbing-slenderman-defendant/](http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/justice/wisconsin-stabbing-slenderman-defendant/) Not sure if the girl is just lying in attempt to save herself from more severe punishment or if she really has some diagnosable mental problems. From what I’ve read they planned this attack for months. Twelve seems pretty old to not realize the gravity of their intended actions. I hate cases like this, the appropriate thing to do is very difficult to decide, especially not knowing anything about the parents of the children, their upbringing, events in their lives leading up to this attack. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/13 "2015-08-12T05:07:05Z")
Interesting and weird. I believe the law in Canada is that children under 14 cannot even be tried. Of course, if they exhibit severe mental problems, they can be put in the appropriate psychiatric facility. I don’t understand the logic of trying them as if they were functional adults who knew better and fully understood the consequences of their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/14 "2015-08-12T06:17:39Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Interesting and weird. I believe the law in Canada is that children under 14 cannot even be tried. Of course, if they exhibit severe mental problems, they can be put in the appropriate psychiatric facility. I don’t understand the logic of trying them as if they were functional adults who knew better and fully understood the consequences of their actions. So what do you do when a child is accused of robbing, raping, or killing someone? Just give them a psych exam and let them go if they pass? Lock them up without trial? Seriously, what happens when a 13 year old commits a heinous crime but doesn’t exhibit severe mental problems? And then does the psychiatrist who evaluated the child for mental problems then take the place of the judge and decide who will be locked up? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/15 "2015-08-12T06:18:59Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Interesting and weird. I believe the law in Canada is that children under 14 cannot even be tried. Of course, if they exhibit severe mental problems, they can be put in the appropriate psychiatric facility. I don’t understand the logic of trying them as if they were functional adults who knew better and fully understood the consequences of their actions. What child over 5 doesn’t understand that its wrong to stab and kill? Minors who commit these acts have malfunctioning brains and must be segregated from the rest of society. ---
**Author:** ![Reginald\_Hobbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@Reginald\_Hobbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reginald_Hobbes)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/16 "2015-08-12T12:34:10Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Prosecutors have a duty to avoid cases that would be considered unwinnable. Maybe this one thought the little psychopaths were just too young to try for the death penalty. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > That’s because they _are_ too young for the death penalty. I believe the Supreme Court ruled that the death penalty cannot be applied to anyone who was under 18 at the time they committed the offense. Psychopaths or not. And, the fact that there is no death penalty in Wisconsin might have something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/17 "2015-08-12T13:16:29Z")
> [@Reginald\_Hobbes](#): > > And, the fact that there is no death penalty in Wisconsin might have something to do with it. And, the fact that the victim didn’t die. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/18 "2015-08-12T17:05:37Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > So what do you do when a child is accused of robbing, raping, or killing someone? Just give them a psych exam and let them go if they pass? Lock them up without trial? > > Seriously, what happens when a 13 year old commits a heinous crime but doesn’t exhibit severe mental problems? > > And then does the psychiatrist who evaluated the child for mental problems then take the place of the judge and decide who will be locked up? > [@madsircool](#): > > What child over 5 doesn’t understand that its wrong to stab and kill? Minors who commit these acts have malfunctioning brains and must be segregated from the rest of society. Yeah, that’s a complaint by the police - they catch kids shop-lifting or even breaking into places, take them to their parents, and all they can do is “warn” them, possibly mandatory supervision. If the parents are less than concerned, the result is a revolving door. 13-year-olds stealing cars and joyriding was apparently a problem out west a decade ago. As for more serious crimes - why should you be surprised? Isn’t that essentially what happens with adult perps or anyone that is being committed for mental problems? A court-appointed or prosecution or social services psychiatrist evaluates, produces a report, and this goes to a judge who decides if the situation warrants the person being locked up against their will. Presumably parents or social services also have the right to decide for their minor child. A child has significantly less developed “social filters”. Whether this is saying things they don’t realize are not right or appropriate, or lethal impulse control issues- either they grow out of those or they don’t, or it’s their inner psychopath coming out. Regardless, life incarceration is not the appropriate response for a 12-year-old. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/19 "2015-08-12T18:06:55Z")
Adults don’t get life imprisonment for attempted murder either (unless it is a very unusual situation like three strikes). ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588/20 "2015-08-12T18:48:21Z")
We have a local case where a twelve year old has been indicted for murder: [Jerrell Milton](http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/12-Year-Old-Wanted-In-Connection-With-Omaha-Murder-Found-In-Minnesota-312364751.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-perps-in-slenderman-stabbing-case-to-be-tried-as-adults-why/727588.md?page=2)