# Child Prostitution in Cuba -- Round II **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797 "2003-06-27T17:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zorro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ad7895/32.png) [@Zorro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zorro)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/41 "2003-06-30T13:03:21Z")
Well actually, you haven’t lived in Cuba for over 25 years… One way or the other, there isn’t a government on earth that condones child prostitution, no matter how corrupt and ideologically reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/42 "2003-06-30T13:31:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zorro \* > \*\*there isn’t a government on earth that condones child prostitution, no matter how corrupt and ideologically reprehensible. \*\* I’m not going to answer for every government on earth, but this is exactly what I said a few posts back: > [@](#): > > The Cuban government is NOT endorsing child prostitution. In recent years it has passed a number of laws against “proxenetismo”, or pimping. The penalties for these crimes can go up to 20-30 years in prison, and the penalties are compounded when it involves minors. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/43 "2003-06-30T14:37:34Z")
So the short of it is that we all agree the Cuban government does not in any way mandate, promote or condone the prostitution of minors. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/44 "2003-06-30T14:46:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*So the short of it is that we all agree the Cuban government does not in any way mandate, promote or condone the prostitution of minors. \*\* No, but I think many will agree that you made an assinine statement. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/45 "2003-06-30T15:01:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*No, but I think many will agree that you made an assinine statement. \*\* Care to elaborate, **Brutus**? Which statement? Is there a functioning brain behind your keyboard? ---
**Author:** ![Zorro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ad7895/32.png) [@Zorro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zorro)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/46 "2003-06-30T16:45:20Z")
Look, Cuba is strapped for cash. But there is no way in hell that enough money is being made from child prostitution for the Cuban government to even consider condoning it. Individuals may be bribed and so on, but the institutions are not going to protect such a source of revenue. Maybe, just maybe, the dollars earned through overall prostitution could make a difference, but child prostitution? It’s something of a specialist interest area. ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/47 "2003-06-30T17:39:01Z")
Two link relevant to the discussion. The [first](http://www.cubasource.org/chronicles/jan03.htm#prev3) talks about a Canadian man arrested for sexual contact with a minor, as follows: > [@](#): > > January 7: The family of a Canadian man languishing in a Cuban jail was waiting at the prison’s gates, frightened and worried over the oilfield worker’s health as he enters his second week of taking neither food nor drink. “Physically he’s doing horrible,” said Perry King’s sister Carmen Frunchak. “Mentally, I was told by my doctor it could be called dehydration deliriousness where he goes in and out of very bad mood swings.” King, 40, has been held since the summer on accusations of sexual contact with a minor, but he has never been charged and no trial is in sight. The hunger strike, his second since being arrested, is an attempt to get some action on his case. Cuban officials detained King in August to investigate allegations he had sexual contact with a minor about two years ago, but his family says he is innocent. Under Cuban law, King can be held in jail indefinitely until an investigation is complete or a trial scheduled. That’s standard practice in Cuba, said the spokesman of Canada’s foreign affairs Reynald Doiron. Canadian officials in Cuba are in almost daily contact with prison officials regarding King, Doiron said. (Canadian Press, 7/1/ 02) The [second](http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~delacova/cuba/sex-crime.htm) discusses said man’s conviction: > [@](#): > > A Canadian oil worker was convicted of sexually corrupting a 14-year old Cuban girl and sentenced by a Cuban court to 25 years in jail, officials said on Saturday. Cuban authorities arrested Perry King, 40, of Edmonton, Alberta, in August and charged him in February with three counts of sexual involvement with a minor. His trial took place on April 10 and the verdict was rendered on Thursday. All fine and good, now, do you want to guess how much press this got inside Cuba? Zero. Make of that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/48 "2003-06-30T18:11:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*One debate might be why the WSJ, which apaprently does all of the OP’s thinking for him, isn’t even more strenuously condemning Thailand for condoning its own world-famous kiddie-prostitution industry. \*\* FWIW, in the spirit of the site’s motto, I hijack this long enough to mention that Thailand has made great strides in this area due to dogged effort. The “sex industry” thrives more-or-less legally, but the “child sex industry” has moved to poorer nations like Cambodia and Vietnam. Now back to Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/49 "2003-06-30T18:57:15Z")
Ok, a few facts seem to have been established. Prostitution _per se_ is not illegal in Cuba. A chica(over 16) acting on her own meeting a jon(acting on his own) and going back to her place for a romp and cash exchange seems perfectly legal. The excerpts from the UN report and the fragments of Cuban statutes quoted on the [ageofconsent.com](http://ageofconsent.com) site seem to establish that. The piece which still seems unresolved is the evidence presented by **bayonet1976** > [@](#): > > Right after the Revolution the Cuban government went on a “eliminate prostitution” kick, which consisted of relocation prostitutes from the cities to smaller towns in the countryside. The predictable result was that, if you wanted a prostitute you simply went to the countryside, instead of the big cities. So, for a long time the government has essentially turned a blind eye to prostitution. > > IMO, these laws were passed because the government had made such a big deal about eliminating prostitution, and because it is fairly obvious and widely reported that Cuba is a hot spot for prostitution. The phrase “saving face” comes to mind. Also IMO the laws are rarely if ever enforced, they’re just for show. From my research on the topic I have learned that all a country needs to do to become “a hot spot for prostitution” is to legalize it. It becomes a **very** hot spot if it is a poor country and the prices are low. In the US a prostitute(often called “escorts”) are around two hundred dollars an hour. Travel reports from Cuba indicate 40-50 US dollars would get you a Cuban prostitute for several hours and a few dollars more would get her for overnight. Add in another $30 to use a private residence. The “cottage industry” referenced above is private homeowners renting small bungalows to jons on a nightly, daily, or weekly basis. Reports I’ve seen indicate ~1000 to 1500 US dollars for a “private residence” and several Cuban women visiting in shifts. All this can be arranged through a “travel agent” and is blatently illegal although a sex tourist making all their arrangements themselves would not be. Assuming they contacted each prostitute individualy and not through a pimp or other agent. If anyone wants cites you can email me and wait a couple of weeks while I get my home PC repaired. I am NOT accessing that kind of stuff at work nor am I posting it on the boards. Anyway. Two full nights, or ~four individual sessions(possibly with different providers) for what it would cost for one hour with an “escort” in the states. There is a way to conduct the transactions legally and it is inexpensive. THIS is all it takes to be come “a hot spot for prostitution.” No advertisement is necessary, as I mentioned there is an extensive community of “hobbyists”(yes, that is what jons call themselves online) who are more than happy to spread the word. No government support, mandates, or advertising is needed. If the government runs the hotels and bars tourists from bringing girls back to their rooms, private “beachfront villas” provide the venue. As to police turning their heads. I don’t have the experience of **sailor** , or **bayonet1976** , but if prostitution is legal as long as there are only two parties involved, then the cops have no reason to bust the couples as long as there is no third party involved or unless they have reason to believe the girl is underage. Clearly this is still prostitution, but it is the form of prostitution that is legal in Cuba. If a woman, acting on her own, and a man, acting on his own, work out a sex-for-cash deal and both are of age, then the cops are supposed to leave them alone. Anyone have any idea what percentage of these situations are actually underage prostitutes? Any idea if the police can tell or somehow know they are underage and still choose to look the other way? If these situations are common, any idea if they “look the other way” because of a mandate from their superiors or on their own authority? **december** needs to show that the mandate to “look the other way” comes from Castro to prove his point. I don’t think we’re anywhere near there right now, but more evidence, in either direction, is helpful. Enjoy, Steven On Preview: **furt** , the situation in Thailand is a HUGE hijack, but it may be worth noting that even though Thailand authorities HAVE SERIOUSLY cracked down on child prostitituion, it’s not as gone as they’d like to represent. Part of it is cultural and unless the Thai people have a cultural revolution, I don’t see it going away. For anyone who doesn’t know, the largest consumer of prositution in Thailand is actually its native Thai population. Even “underage” prostitution(the Thai have a bit of a problem with the western definition of “of age”). I had a friend who taught English in Bankock for a couple of years in college and I’ve done some research on Thailand as well. Although there are severe penalties for sex with minors, there are still brothels with “back rooms” that, get this, mostly cater to the locals. It is actually quite hard, judging from the reports that I’ve seen, for a “sex tourist” to gain the trust of a “mama-san” to the point where underage prostitutes will be offered. They are still available, more or less, to the natives however. Bizarre situation there. **bayonet** , can you clarify what you meant by the “guess how much press this got inside Cuba” bit? What would publicising or not publicising this event accomplish? What motives are you suggesting may have moved the Cuban government to not publish this story? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/50 "2003-06-30T18:58:15Z")
**bayonet1976** -_All fine and good, now, do you want to guess how much press this got inside Cuba? Zero. Make of that what you will._ OK, my guess would be very little coverage and I would make very little of it. I don’t expect media the world over to be as pornographic about it’s news selection as in North America. Actually reading that post I forget which side you are arguing. A man waits 8 months for trial and is sentenced to 25 yrs. Do you think this is too light? too heavy? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/51 "2003-06-30T19:03:57Z")
D’oh! The “cottage industry” referenced above is private homeowners renting small bungalows to jons on a nightly, daily, or weekly basis. Reports I’ve seen indicate ~1000 to 1500 US dollars for a “private residence” **for a week** and several Cuban women visiting in shifts **during the week**. All this can be arranged through a “travel agent” and is blatently illegal although a sex tourist making all their arrangements themselves would not be. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/52 "2003-06-30T19:22:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\ ***bayonet1976** -_All fine and good, now, do you want to guess how much press this got inside Cuba? Zero. Make of that what you will._ > > OK, my guess would be very little coverage and I would make very little of it. I don’t expect media the world over to be as pornographic about it’s news selection as in North America. > > Actually reading that post I forget which side you are arguing. A man waits 8 months for trial and is sentenced to 25 yrs. Do you think this is too light? too heavy? \*\* I have no problem with the sentence handed out in this case, and posted the links to show that the Cuban government is NOT promoting child prostitution. However, and this is the point of my own statement, the government is also making very little effort to publicize the laws on child prostitution. I find your statement about media coverage in Cuba to be a little disingenous. In case you did not know, the Cuban government controls each and every single media outlet in Cuba, whatever gets published is done with the full review and approval of the government, and of course what doesn’t get published as well. The fact that this case got no publicity whatsoever is a problem. If the government wants to stop child prositution then it would be helpful if it made a big deal of the crimes, and the efforst being made to stop it. Of course, that publicity would be bad in a number of levels, first it would show that there is a problem in Cuba with prostitution tourism, and child prostitution specifically, and second, publicizing the punishment would also deter some tourism. And Cuba needs tourists and their money. ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/53 "2003-06-30T19:29:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\ ***bayonet** , can you clarify what you meant by the “guess how much press this got inside Cuba” bit? What would publicising or not publicising this event accomplish? What motives are you suggesting may have moved the Cuban government to not publish this story? \*\* I’ve already posted this elsewhere but here it goes. The Cuban government will NOT do anything to deter tourism, even if that means that cases like this get no press whatsoever. The problem with this attitude is that, as far as Cubans know, these crimes do not exist and are not a problem. That means, among other things, that the populace is not involved in finding out about, and reporting these crimes. But it serves the government’s purposes. Which leads me back to my original point, which was that the Cuban government is NOT promoting child prostitution, it is passing stiff laws against it, and in some cases even enforcing those laws, BUT it could certainly be doing a heck of a lot more. If you think Cubans are served by being kept in the dark about these types of crimes, please give me your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/54 "2003-06-30T20:09:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\*Although there are severe penalties for sex with minors, there are still brothels with “back rooms” that, get this, mostly cater to the locals. True enough. I was addressing the implication that Thailand had a “child sex tourism” industry as is being claimed for Cuba. At the risk of continuing the hijack, the child sex trade in Asia generally is fuelled by Asians, especially wealthy HK and Singapore Chinese. There is a folk belief that deflowering gives the man longevity or potency. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/55 "2003-06-30T20:16:08Z")
I was in Cuba in 1998 and 2000. Apparently, the police started really cracking down on prostitution around 1999. If anything, the police are too heavy-handed about going after prostitution. A friend (American man) who visits Cuba frequently discovered that he could no longer be seen in public with Cuban female friends, as the police would stop them and take her to the station for questioning. I’m not sure how to solve the problem of sex tourism in Cuba, but I don’t think increased police enforcement is the answer. What’s clear is that the Cuban government has recognized the problem and is taking steps to solve it. Don’t the European and North American johns bear some responsibility in this? Their governments could start prosecuting men who travel abroad for the purpose of having illegal sex with minors. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/56 "2003-06-30T20:39:30Z")
**bayonet** , are you suggesting that Cubans do not know that prostitution is widespread and that police are cracking down on it? That’s ridiculous. Even if the problem hadn’t received a great deal of official and public attention in recent years, it’s so visible that you’d have to be blind not to see it. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/57 "2003-06-30T20:41:29Z")
**bayonet1976** -_I find your statement about media coverage in Cuba to be a little disingenous. In case you did not know, the Cuban government controls each and every single media outlet in Cuba, whatever gets published is done with the full review and approval of the government, and of course what doesn’t get published as well._ Well yes of course the Granma is a shameless propaganda rag and if child prostitution was a major cause of Castro’s it would be front page news. So I guess I agree if you are saying child prostitution is not that big on Castro’s agenda. I disagree it implies anything more sinister. I’m sure his editors would defend with there’s only so much room in the paper and a lot of “America Sucks” stories out there.(mirroring the way NYT editors reply to Chomsky 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/58 "2003-06-30T20:51:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > No, but I think many will agree that you made an assinine statement. Which one would that be? And I’d like to see how “many” here agree with you that it was assinine. I have a feeling you may be quite wrong. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/59 "2003-06-30T20:53:59Z")
Here are some miscellaneous articles that show the problem of prostitution has received public attention within Cuba: > **[Speech by Raúl Castro Ruz, at the Political Ceremony, Military Review and...](https://www.ratb.org.uk/frfi/146_prostitution.html)** > > Speech by Raúl Castro Ruz, at the Political Ceremony, Military Review and March of the Combatant People in Commemoration of the 50th Anniversary of the Landing of the Granma Yacht and the Day of the Revolutionary Armed Forces, and in Celebration of... [http://www.walnet.org/csis/news/world\_2003/reuters-030127.html](http://www.walnet.org/csis/news/world_2003/reuters-030127.html) [http://granmai.cubaweb.com/espanol/2003/junio/mier25/losninos.html](http://granmai.cubaweb.com/espanol/2003/junio/mier25/losninos.html) [http://www.joven.cu/PRO/introduccion.html](http://www.joven.cu/PRO/introduccion.html) [http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/jul02/18o2.htm](http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/jul02/18o2.htm) [http://64.21.33.164/CNews/y99/feb99/16o11.htm](http://64.21.33.164/CNews/y99/feb99/16o11.htm) [http://www.ain.cubaweb.cu/discursos/fidelp5.htm](http://www.ain.cubaweb.cu/discursos/fidelp5.htm) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797/60 "2003-06-30T20:59:21Z")
I agree that Cuba, like other dictatorships, will not publicise things which it considers reflect badly on the country. For the same reason China hid the extension of AIDS and SARS. etc. They are not trying to increase AIDS or SARS, it is just a reflex reaction. They think if you ignore bad things they will go away. While the problem may be worse in dictatorships it is not restricted to them. It is not like the government of the USA is totally open and forthcoming about things which happen in the USA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-prostitution-in-cuba-round-ii/184797.md?page=4)