# Child Support from Mother who Gave Up her Child? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291 "2012-12-07T13:33:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/1 "2012-12-07T13:33:21Z")
As in link [[Judge Orders Adopted Baby Returned to Father, Couple Plans to Appeal Ruling - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-orders-adopted-baby-returned-soldier-dad/story?id=17877671#.UMHvHlFXKZR)] Woman gives up baby for adoption, but husband was not made aware nor did he consent.Judge has ordered the child returned to him. How would he fare in requesting child support from the mother? Is there any precedent on this? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/2 "2012-12-07T13:58:59Z")
Women can be ordered to pay child support to the father. It does not happen very often, I suppose, because the circumstances where the mother loses custody generally impy that she probably does not have the resources to pay support. But, I have heard of it in a normal two-working-parents divorce. In this situation, yes, it would be an interesting court case. She could argue she gave up rights. However, with the adoption nullified, and apparently (depending on who you believe) she actively attempted to hide the continuing pregnancy and avoid seeking his consent for adoption, or making his whereabouts known, she has pretty much proven she should not get the child and she shouldn’t get out of child support simply because she tried to defraud the father of his child. However, to go back to my original point - he’s making a soldier’s pay, she does not appear to have any significant career options or assets (the comment “left her without money, a car, …”) so even if she owes child support, you can’t get blood from a turnip. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/3 "2012-12-07T14:07:06Z")
Agreed that it doesn’t sound like she has the resources, either emotional or financial. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/4 "2012-12-07T16:00:03Z")
Family law is not my field, but I don’t see that the failed adoption changes the mother’s obligations in any way. The father can presumably get a child support order, and if she does get a job, have her wages garnished, etc. Slightly off-topic, but if the court’s order is accurate, this agency and adoptive family acted reprehensibly. Baby-stealing like this poisons the well for other, legitimate adoptions. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/5 "2012-12-07T16:23:03Z")
> [@11811](#): > > Agreed that it doesn’t sound like she has the resources, either emotional or financial. > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Family law is not my field, but I don’t see that the failed adoption changes the mother’s obligations in any way. The father can presumably get a child support order, and if she does get a job, have her wages garnished, etc. Men without any means are regularly ordered to pay child support. I don’t see any reason women shouldn’t be required to do the same. > [@](#): > > Slightly off-topic, but if the court’s order is accurate, this agency and adoptive family acted reprehensibly. Baby-stealing like this poisons the well for other, legitimate adoptions. If the acts of this agency were knowing and intentional could they be charged with crimes? Kidnapping, human trafficing, that sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/6 "2012-12-07T16:35:31Z")
The father can seek child support from the mother. A parent can’t unilaterally terminate their own parental rights; if that were the case, a huge percentage of noncustodial parents would do so just to get out of paying child support. When she put the child up for adoption, she committed a fraud upon the court by representing that the father was unknown and could not be identified, and the court relied on those representations in terminating both the mother’s and allegedly unknown father’s rights. Now that the fraud is revealed, the father’s rights are restored and the mother can’t unilaterally get out of her parental obligations. Unless she is physically or mentally unable to work, the father should be able to get child support from her of at least what a minimum wage earner would make. It’s true that you can’t get blood out of a turnip, but you can have the turnip jailed for contempt and nonsupport every few months if it’s not at least trying to find work. The mother may still be entitled to at least supervised visitation, however, and the father may offer to agree to the termination of the mother’s rights just to get her out of their lives. If the judge agrees with them that it’s in the kid’s best interest her rights may be terminated, and she’ll be off the hook for support (but have no rights over the child). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/7 "2012-12-07T16:37:22Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Men without any means are regularly ordered to pay child support. I don’t see any reason women shouldn’t be required to do the same. > > If the acts of this agency were knowing and intentional could they be charged with crimes? Kidnapping, human trafficing, that sort of thing? Absolutely right. Men are ordered to pay child support even when unemployed. Often told by judges to go get a job. Of course the amount is not the same as someone with a 6 figure income but you don’t get a pass. Kidnapping and human trafficking seem to be abit much. There should be state regulations which cover adoptions that they broke. It would be all very state specific and hard to determine except by an expert from that state. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/8 "2012-12-07T16:46:06Z")
Re-reading the article, the whole “no money or details of his whereabouts” is bullshit. Maybe that’s what the mother told the adoptees but there is no way it’s true. He didn’t get deployed on a secret mission, he was assigned as a Drill Sergeant. Doesn’t happen overnight. They were together, he was taking her to prenatal appointments. She knew where he was going. And it is extremely easy to get that information from the army. I have seen soldiers get deductions from their pay for child and spousal support so fast it will make your head spin. The army does not shield their soldiers in cases like that. Just the opposite. All she had to do was complain to an officer that he left her with no support and the Army would have come down on him with both feet. It does not add up. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/9 "2012-12-07T17:41:59Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > The father can seek child support from the mother. A parent can’t unilaterally terminate their own parental rights; if that were the case, a huge percentage of noncustodial parents would do so just to get out of paying child support. When she put the child up for adoption, she committed a fraud upon the court by representing that the father was unknown and could not be identified, and the court relied on those representations in terminating both the mother’s and allegedly unknown father’s rights. Now that the fraud is revealed, the father’s rights are restored and the mother can’t unilaterally get out of her parental obligations. I disagree in part. The court that granted the adoption presumably terminated the parental rights of both parents. I don’t think the mother automatically gets her rights restored if the father succeeds in overturning the adoption. He does not have standing to seek to have her rights restored. He may get his own rights restored, and obtain sole custody of the child, but I would expect that her rights will remain terminated. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/10 "2012-12-07T18:20:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I disagree in part. The court that granted the adoption presumably terminated the parental rights of both parents. I don’t think the mother automatically gets her rights restored if the father succeeds in overturning the adoption. He does not have standing to seek to have her rights restored. He may get his own rights restored, and obtain sole custody of the child, but I would expect that her rights will remain terminated. I gotta disagree - if the order terminating their rights was based on her fraud, the entire order should void. Now, if the father wanted her rights to remain terminated or petitioned the court to terminate because of what she’s done I’d agree that he has grounds, but if he seeks a child support order I can’t see a judge denying it on the basis that she had already terminated her own parental rights through fraud. It would be allowing the mother to benefit from her own fraud and setting the precedent that any parent can avoid a child support obligation if they can trick a court into terminating their rights. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/11 "2012-12-07T18:42:05Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > I gotta disagree - if the order terminating their rights was based on her fraud, the entire order should void. Now, if the father wanted her rights to remain terminated or petitioned the court to terminate because of what she’s done I’d agree that he has grounds, but if he seeks a child support order I can’t see a judge denying it on the basis that she had already terminated her own parental rights through fraud. It would be allowing the mother to benefit from her own fraud and setting the precedent that any parent can avoid a child support obligation if they can trick a court into terminating their rights. Agree, you can’t void just part of the court order so she should be back on the hook. The whole adoption would be thrown out so everything goes back to normal, relatively speaking. If dad is married, his wife could adopt the kid but unless that happens, the mom is still mom. I’d be surprised if she has any visitation rights at the moment though. Also, although my daughters mother didn’t have a job, she was ordered to pay me child support as if she were working minimum wage x 40 hours per week. Smart people in that situation will go out and get a job, or so I hear. That’s not what she did. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/12 "2012-12-07T18:48:57Z")
Whoops…wait a minute. Somehow I missed the fact that the natural parents are married. I withdraw my opinion. I’ll have to ponder this one a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/13 "2012-12-07T19:21:10Z")
Anybody know if Utah requires a Guardian ad Litem in adoption cases? I really would not want to be that lawyer if they do… ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/14 "2012-12-07T21:04:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Whoops…wait a minute. Somehow I missed the fact that the natural parents are married. I withdraw my opinion. I’ll have to ponder this one a bit. The ABC News article is confusingly written. [This article from the Salt Lake Tribune](http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55401223-78/adoption-achane-child-agency.html.csp) has a clearer timeline: > [@](#): > > Achane and Tira Bland married in 2009 in Texas and learned in June 2010 she was pregnant and that the baby was due in mid-March of 2011. The couple had marital problems but were still together in January 2011 when Achane accepted a position as a drill sergeant at Fort Jackson in South Carolina. He left in mid-month to set up a home and report for duty, expecting to return to Texas for the baby’s birth. > > Less than two weeks later, Bland decided to pursue an adoption; she came to Utah in mid-February and stopped communicating with Achane. Bland, who claimed her husband had abandoned her, gave birth on March 1, 2011. > > Achane says he had no idea what had become of Bland or his baby until Bland contacted him in June and informed him she had placed the child for adoption. Achane immediately contacted The Adoption Center of Choice and began asserting his parental rights as the child’s father. He has since divorced Bland. So it sounds like the parents were separated but not divorced when the child was born, and the mother told the adoption agency that her husband couldn’t be found. Once the father was aware of the situation, he asserted his parental rights and also sued for divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/15 "2012-12-07T21:38:12Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > The ABC News article is confusingly written. [This article from the Salt Lake Tribune](http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55401223-78/adoption-achane-child-agency.html.csp) has a clearer timeline: It is still not entirely clear, but I think that this adoption was never finalized. This article says the father intervened in the adoption action, so it is likely his rights were never actually terminated. If that is true, it is possible the mother’s rights were not terminated either. I’m a little confused as to how a divorce happened with the status of the child in limbo like this… ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/16 "2012-12-07T21:53:36Z")
Would it make a difference if the mother’s parental rights were terminated by fraudulent representations on her part? It seems unjust to let her out of child support obligations on such a basis. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/17 "2012-12-07T22:52:46Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Absolutely right. Men are ordered to pay child support even when unemployed. Often told by judges to go get a job. Of course the amount is not the same as someone with a 6 figure income but you don’t get a pass. I’ve known men who intentionally quit their jobs before going to family court so they could claim they have no income. I don’t blame a judge for looking at somebody’s recent employment history and setting child support based on their overall income rather than what their income happens to be on the day they appear in court. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/child-support-from-mother-who-gave-up-her-child/643291/18 "2012-12-08T01:07:02Z")
In this state, the non-custodial parent, even if destitute, living on the street in a box, is ordered to pay $50/month in child support.