# Childfree is anti-natalism and anti-natalism is bigotry **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443 "2010-01-02T22:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/81 "2010-01-03T20:09:10Z")
I want to powerbomb all of the world’s children. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/82 "2010-01-03T20:45:35Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I propose a middle ground: we can celebrate children, yet bemoan **mswas’** decision to reproduce. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I want to powerbomb all of the world’s children. That’s enough, **MOIDALIZE**. Either contribute to the discussion or post in a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/83 "2010-01-03T20:49:32Z")
There was a discussion happening? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/84 "2010-01-03T20:53:52Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > There was a discussion happening? You’re right not really. Several trolls have tried to hijack it and in some cases outright lie. The childfree don’t like to discuss this issue, they just want to say nasty things about parents and have it be considered totally justified due to some sort of nebulous bigotry that they perceive in the world. A bigotry that doesn’t affect their jobs, their ability to travel, their ability to vote, to live where they want, or any of that. They’re oppressed by people who disapprove of their lifestyle. So that means it’s perfectly justified to wish death on children, to insult and harangue parents in internet discussion forums, even if those people are being civil to them. They cannot handle adult discussions of the role of parents without making snide comments and slapping each other on the back for said snide comments. It’s really interesting to me how blatantly insecure this community is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/85 "2010-01-03T20:57:43Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > That’s right nigger-spic-faggot. But I bet the bigotted kikes in the moderating staff are gonna go all protocols of zion on me and shut me up in this post. > [@mswas](#): > > You’re right not really. Several trolls have tried to hijack it and in some cases outright lie. You’ve been given a lot of warnings about flying off the handle like this, **mswas**. If you want to continue posting here, stop this now. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/86 "2010-01-03T21:05:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No it’s that this form of bigotry is tolerated, but shouldn’t be. Childless is nowhere NEAR as offensive as ‘breeder’. Being called “childless” is offensive TO ME (and to many people who self-identify as childfree). It carries about 20 years of baggage with it, and I’ve found a term that better describes my life and attitudes. As people have pointed out on the Dope many times, words mean things. You keep talking about what childfree means - it means me. I _am_ childfree. It also means the nutjob extremists that you keep talking about, but take it from someone who is active in the childfree community, they are far from the norm. When the people who self-identify as something don’t match your definition of a term, maybe it’s your definition that is flawed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/87 "2010-01-03T21:07:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’ve been given a lot of warnings about flying off the handle like this, **mswas**. If you want to continue posting here, stop this now. I didn’t fly off the handle. I wasn’t angry when I posted that. I was merely pointing out that terms like ‘breeder’ are the equivalent of such epithets and shouldn’t be considered ok amongst polite society. If getting banned for making this point is something that must occur then that’s fine. I do not want to post on a message board where such bigotry is condoned. If you want to rule as a moderator that this kind of bigotry is ok, and my illustration of why it’s not ok, is not kosher that’s fine. You can add me to the roles of the traffic die off that is occurring due to the inappropriate moderation of this forum. I have been quite civil and in control of myself throughout this thread in the face of incivility from people telling me that my children should never have been born. In the fact of people telling me that ‘childless’ is an oppressive term, but think that it’s ok to talk about ‘genuflecting’ at the altar of the child. _shrugs_ It really doesn’t matter to me. If you ban me for something I believe in, and I didn’t act rashly to earn that banning, I am perfectly willing to accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/88 "2010-01-03T21:09:19Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No it’s that this form of bigotry is tolerated, but shouldn’t be. Childless is nowhere NEAR as offensive as ‘breeder’. So bigotry (and the attendant labeling) is tolerated by people of similar or neutral views? Did this strike you as insightful? You went looking for anti-child bigotry and you found it. Magellan, you ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/89 "2010-01-03T21:13:09Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Being called “childless” is offensive TO ME (and to many people who self-identify as childfree). It carries about 20 years of baggage with it, and I’ve found a term that better describes my life and attitudes. As people have pointed out on the Dope many times, words mean things. It’s offensive to ME to hear terms like, “Genuflecting at the altar of the child.”, but you don’t care what offends me, why should I care what offends you? Especially since I am not being intentionally offensive by using English correctly, whereas anyone who uses “Genuflecting” is being intentionally offensive. > [@](#): > > You keep talking about what childfree means - it means me. I _am_ childfree. It also means the nutjob extremists that you keep talking about, but take it from someone who is active in the childfree community, they are far from the norm. When the people who self-identify as something don’t match your definition of a term, maybe it’s your definition that is flawed. But it’s not the nutjob extremists. ALL childfree forums contain people ranting about how much they hate children and parents. Some are more civil than others but they ALL have the same theme, the hatred of families. If it’s far from the norm, how come you haven’t actually tried to discuss this rationally? Instead you focus on this sort of Newspeak nitpick on the terms childless and childfree. How come on any child free forum I can find rants about how much they hate kids, moos and duds within seconds? On EVERY SINGLE FORUM. You tell me it’s the exception EVERY childfree forum tells me otherwise. Notice that you didn’t express disgust at **jackmanii** ’s bigotry, you gave him a high five. You congratulated him on his wit. Which brings me to another point I’ll never understand, why people think it’s witty when someone repeats a trite and cliche joke. Nothing he said was clever, it was simply insulting, and you thought it was a great and wonderful thing to say. You are the reason I started this thread btw. I was impressed by how reasoned you were in the other thread until you started high fiving **jackmanii** for his bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/90 "2010-01-03T21:15:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So bigotry (and the attendant labeling) is tolerated by people of similar or neutral views? > Did this strike you as insightful? You went looking for anti-child bigotry and you found it. Magellan, you ain’t. Right, it was difficult for Magellan to go around the world. I just quoted from the top threads on the first forums I found on Google. It’s not that I found bigotry after reading thread after thread. I quoted threads that were dozens of pages long and at the top of the queue on the forums. And every single forum I looked at had multiple threads full of hatred and vitriole. People with puking emoticons in threads about children. It ain’t like the bigotry is hidden in some dark recess. It’s prominent and accounts for a high proportion of the post content on these forums. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/91 "2010-01-03T21:16:01Z")
You can’t use inflammatory language to piss people off and then act like you’re being martyred, **mswas**. You are not going to get banned for the point you are making. If you continue to try to make it this way, you’ll be banned for your poor choice of tactics and for the fact that you’ve done this before. The points you _do_ have can be made without this kind of behavior and I suggest you start doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/92 "2010-01-03T21:18:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It ain’t like the bigotry is hidden in some dark recess. It’s prominent and accounts for a high proportion of the post content on these forums. So let it stay on those forums. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/93 "2010-01-03T21:19:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You can’t use inflammatory language to piss people off and then act like you’re being martyred, **mswas**. You are not going to get banned for the point you are making. If you continue to try to make it this way, you’ll be banned for your poor choice of tactics and for the fact that you’ve done this before. The points you _do_ have can be made without this kind of behavior and I suggest you start doing that. Whatever, I don’t care. Do what you will. I’m not angry, I’m not upset. I am disturbed by this stuff, and annoyed that it’s ok to use nasty epithets against parents, but I can’t use other nasty epithets to illustrate the point. And I won’t be martyred unless you ban me. 😉 I’m not being uncivil here. I didn’t actually call anyone specific any of those names, I just used them to illustrate a point. You’ll honestly be doing me a favor. I spend too much time on internet message boards as it is. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/94 "2010-01-03T21:20:26Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > So let it stay on those forums. It was used on this forum by **jackmanii** and **Cat Whisperer**. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/95 "2010-01-03T21:21:53Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Right, it was difficult for Magellan to go around the world. I just quoted from the top threads on the first forums I found on Google. On message boards dedicated to “child-free” discussions. What’s next, finding discussions about movies at [imdb.com](http://imdb.com)? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/96 "2010-01-03T21:22:41Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > On message boards dedicated to “child-free” discussions. What’s next, finding discussions about movies at [imdb.com](http://imdb.com)? So you agree then that child hate is normal for the child free? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/97 "2010-01-03T21:25:32Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It was used on this forum by **jackmanii** and **Cat Whisperer**. Then argue against them, don’t rail on and on about other forums. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/98 "2010-01-03T21:26:08Z")
Why isn’t this thread in the pit? Mswas isn’t debating anything, just complaining about drivel. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/99 "2010-01-03T21:26:43Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Whatever, I don’t care. Do what you will. I don’t need your permission, you know. 😉 In any case, you’re required to follow the same rules as everybody else no matter how strongly you believe in your side. We’re done with this sidetrack. Everybody is advised to stick to the subject without the ridiculous provocation or exaggerations about the other side. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/100 "2010-01-03T21:27:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I wanted children too, but I disagree with you that there is something wrong with people who don’t want children. > > There is definitely something wrong with people who HATE children though. I never hated them, I wanted to point out. I saw no reason to deal with them as they could not converse with me, nor did i ever feel proper watching a child that wasn’t mine. I do feel I am not out of them norm; how can you find the love of your life and not want to have their child? Tis all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443.md?page=6)