# Childfree is anti-natalism and anti-natalism is bigotry **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443 "2010-01-02T22:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/161 "2010-01-04T20:01:07Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, maybe YOU expect respect. The problem with your argument is that it only works with popular people. Is there any reason why _I_ should respect _YOU_? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/162 "2010-01-04T20:05:20Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Really, you would perfer people that don’t like children hang around them will they will only be aggravated and eventually enraged by their annoying behavior. That’s a receipe for disaster. I don’t like being around children other than those of my extended family and friends from the same culture and avoid them for the same reasons I avoid heavy metal concerts, monster truck rallies, and Rush Limbaugh conventions. As for treating children like people and not discriminating against them most childfree people would like nothing more for children to be treated as people and subject to the same rules of behavior. If an adult would be asked (or ordered) to leave a restaurant, theater, concert for screaming and crying, so should a child. As senior citizens cannot change their Depends in public and someone who makes the mistake of urinating by the side of the road could end up on a sex offender registry, I see no reason an infant should be changed anywhere other than a restroom. Are these strawmen really necessary? I don’t give a fuck who you hang out with. But recognizing the reality that there are people in this world and that your agism is simply crass and rude goes a long way to becoming a civilized person. You expect two year olds to be civilized and yet you refuse to be civilized yourself. Part of being civilized is accepting that two year olds are socially inept. I agree that it’s inappropriate for a child to scream in a public place. And there are inappropriate places to take the child. My daughter has this awful book given her by one of my wife’s aunts. It’s called, “Urban Babies Wear Black”, and it’s this really pretentious book about babies going to all kinds of inappropriate places like museums, the opera, art galleries etc… There are plenty of kid friendly activities, children’s museums and the like. And that’s where kids should go. But conversely, babies cry, and babies are human beings and you live in a plural polity. Expecting babies to be segregated from your existence is entitled and simply not very realistic. You’re going to come across babies on occasion, and sometimes they will be obnoxious and they will scream. Part of the responsibility of being an adult on your part, is that you suck it up and deal with it. Otherwise you are simply a whiney and crying baby of an advanced age. As for changing a baby, if a restroom is available, yes that’s the appropriate place to change them. But your argument is against uncivilized behavior and is not a reflection on parents in general. Just like I don’t walk up and scream ‘fuck you’ in people’s faces randomly, there are certain dictates of decorum. Essentially you and I are saying the same things. We are talking about levels of decorum, and I agree there are appropriate ways to deal with a baby, just as there are appropriate ways to comport yourself as an adult whether you have children or not. My argument is that much of the childfree rhetoric is not appropriate behavior for a mature adult. ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/163 "2010-01-04T20:06:34Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **I didn’t go out of my way. I didn’t need to. People were asking for respect in one thread while being actively insulting at the same time. I started a thread pointing it out.** I did some Google searches and every single forum I found had plenty of threads about how much people hated children, wished them dead and were pissed off that people spent money on their medical expenses. It wasn’t ‘out of my way’. It’s prominent, because that’s what childfree is about. This isn’t true. You were the one who first called attention to the ‘childfree’ calling them radicals, use of the term PC fanaticism, the decision to define themselves in that manner odd, that there was a common chip on their shoulder, and had already come to the conclusion that what undergirds the childfree is a kind of bigotry that treats children as consumer products. This was all stated well before the discussion got raucous. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11898763&postcount=4). [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11899370&postcount=42). [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11899436&postcount=46). > [@mswas](#): > > But this is a straw man creation of the childfree. No one is asking for respect for the mere fact of having kids. At least no one I have ever known. From the other thread: > [@Ethical Implications of Remaining Childless By Choice](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-implications-of-remaining-childless-by-choice/521653/235): > > But, the fact of the matter is, if you do not have a recognition and deference to the position of parenthood in general, then your position isn’t merely that you do not want to have children. It is at its core, anti-natalist. > [@mswas](#): > > Anyway, I’ve made my point. Go ahead and live the fantasy that you are being oppressed by people who don’t really give your life any thought most of the time. Post one instance of a CBC person in either these threads who has claimed to be oppressed. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/164 "2010-01-04T20:06:55Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > That doesn’t follow at all. > > I _expect_ respect _as my right_, whether I’m “popular” or not. > > Just as my _right to respect_ as a person exists, even if I happen to be of a disfavoured minority. > > A child isn’t simply an appendage of a parent, and respecting that child isn’t a duty owed to the _parent_, but to the _child_. > > Why should you respect a stranger’s child? Because the stranger’s child is also a person, and persons are deserving, as of right, basic respect. A respect you have a right to demand for yourself from strangers. If strangers do not give you respect because you are “unpopular”, they are failing in their ethical duties; if you do not respect a stranger because they are a child, you are failing in yours. Some people find it awfully hard to realize that a child – even a baby – is a person, not an object. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/165 "2010-01-04T20:09:26Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Thousands of children (if not millions when one considers the span of human generations) have been raised the way I was. If people want to emulate a situation they will certainly put considerable effort into doing so. And who said I was isolated. I lived in a house with a dozen or more people at any given time. It’s about teaching children to behave and if they can’t removing them from bothering others until they can behave. Right, but the essence of entitlement is thinking that because you had it that way that everyone does. I cannot simply go out and purchase an extended family situation like yours. They don’t sell it at Wal Mart. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/166 "2010-01-04T20:12:44Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > This isn’t true. You were the one who first called attention to the ‘childfree’ calling them radicals, use of the term PC fanaticism, the decision to define themselves in that manner odd, that there was a common chip on their shoulder, and had already come to the conclusion that what undergirds the childfree is a kind of bigotry that treats children as consumer products. This was all stated well before the discussion got raucous. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11898763&postcount=4). [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11899370&postcount=42). [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11899436&postcount=46). > > From the other thread: > > Post one instance of a CBC person in either these threads who has claimed to be oppressed. If you have something to say about the topic then come back to me. This cruft does not interest me. I’m done trying to justify my right to start a thread. I have a right, the thread is started, now discuss the topic or don’t. In your opinion does childfree as an ideology lend itself to anti-natalism. Is anti-natalism bigotry? Do children deserve to have the same rights and respect afforded to adults? If not, at what age does a human become a person? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/167 "2010-01-04T21:07:33Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Right, but the essence of entitlement is thinking that because you had it that way that everyone does. > > I cannot simply go out and purchase an extended family situation like yours. They don’t sell it at Wal Mart. Then perhaps you should have thought twice or three times about having kids. There is an old saying: Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part which I think should be applied to parents. Because you don’t have the resources and infrastructure to do things properly doesn’t mean someone else should be drafted into doing it for you or suffer needlessly for it. If your child is uncontrollable leave him or her at home until they can be civilized or be prepared for people to hate your guts and wish both of you were dead. Consider yourself fortunate that no one acts on those impulses. I love my dogs, but when we leave the yard, they are put on leases. And one of my dogs is a retired search and rescue dog that has contributed more to improving human life on this planet than any child ever could. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/168 "2010-01-04T21:14:46Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Then perhaps you should have thought twice or three times about having kids. So because there are people out there with unrealistic expectations about how I raise my child and think that I should conform to their whims I should not have kids due to the fact that society is no longer organized around a traditional tribal model? Like for really real? I have no problem supporting my kids. It’s YOU who has the problem. Why should I care about your problems? > [@](#): > > There is an old saying: Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part which I think should be applied to parents. Because you don’t have the resources and infrastructure to do things properly doesn’t mean someone else should be drafted into doing it for you or suffer needlessly for it. If your child is uncontrollable leave him or her at home until they can be civilized or be prepared for people to hate your guts and wish both of you were dead. Consider yourself fortunate that no one acts on those impulses. I love my dogs, but when we leave the yard, they are put on leases. And one of my dogs is a retired search and rescue dog that has contributed more to improving human life on this planet than any child ever could. I have the resources and infrastructure to do it properly. I just don’t have the resources and infrastructure to emulate an externally imposed ideal by some misanthropic dude I am talking to on the internet. My daughter is fed, gets medical attention, has a social life and is generally happy. Society and my family operate just fine without appealing to archaic forms of child-rearing as some sort of ideal. And this is the demonstration of your bigotry. My child is well-behaved but you are saying that even so, I should not have had children because my life doesn’t conform to some sort of idealized past experience that YOU have, even though your experience is pretty far from the mainstream, whereas my experience is the mainstream. Please explain to me why YOUR sense of entitlement should be a factor in my decisions? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/169 "2010-01-04T21:32:27Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So because there are people out there with unrealistic expectations about how I raise my child and think that I should conform to their whims I should not have kids due to the fact that society is no longer organized around a traditional tribal model? > > Like for really real? > > I have no problem supporting my kids. It’s YOU who has the problem. Why should I care about your problems? > > I have the resources and infrastructure to do it properly. I just don’t have the resources and infrastructure to emulate an externally imposed ideal by some misanthropic dude I am talking to on the internet. My daughter is fed, gets medical attention, has a social life and is generally happy. Society and my family operate just fine without appealing to archaic forms of child-rearing as some sort of ideal. > > And this is the demonstration of your bigotry. My child is well-behaved but you are saying that even so, I should not have had children because my life doesn’t conform to some sort of idealized past experience that YOU have, even though your experience is pretty far from the mainstream, whereas my experience is the mainstream. > > Please explain to me why YOUR sense of entitlement should be a factor in my decisions? You are using the excuse that your inability to provide your child with an extended family as a license for allowing your child to misbehave. If your child is well-behaved, childfree people have no problem with him or her. When children misbehave we believe their parents deserve scorn and all other means of social disapproval. It is as simple as that. As long as you care about the opinions of other people, you are going to have to accept the fact that people will form negative opinions about your decisions. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/170 "2010-01-04T21:38:02Z")
Furthermore, why should your decision to have a child, based solely on YOUR ENTITLEMENT ISSUES, entitle you and that child to gobble up so many of the world’s resources (it’s not like you offered to offset the carbon footprint your child is going to case, by eliminating your own), cause my property taxes to increase to pay for public schools and infrastructure while you get a tax break for having a child, and generally make life more uncomfortable because of crying, screaming children. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/171 "2010-01-04T21:41:45Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You are using the excuse that your inability to provide your child with an extended family as a license for allowing your child to misbehave. No I’m not. That’s some bullshit you just made up. Like I said, bigotry. > [@](#): > > If your child is well-behaved, childfree people have no problem with him or her. When children misbehave we believe their parents deserve scorn and all other means of social disapproval. It is as simple as that. As long as you care about the opinions of other people, you are going to have to accept the fact that people will form negative opinions about your decisions. Except I do take care of my children. And as long as you behave like an entitled brat when you should be able to behave like a real adult, the rest of us will continue to heap scorn upon you. Be that as it may though. There is no excuse for wishing death upon children. It’s disgusting anti-life bigotry and should not be condoned or tolerated. If you condone and tolerate it then you have nothing of value to tell me about how I should raise my children. I do not take the opinions of psychotic fanatics into account as to how I should raise my children. Based on what you are telling me right now it’s pretty obvious to me that your upbringing was not complete as it has left you bereft of certain necessary coping skills and the inability to separate your own internal monologue and hatred of children from the reality of real people who you are interacting with. That is not to say that extended family situations are not positive environments, but they can just as easily be toxic. Idealized philosophical fantasies are not applicable to the real world. People who were raised properly understand this. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/172 "2010-01-04T21:43:15Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Furthermore, why should your decision to have a child, based solely on YOUR ENTITLEMENT ISSUES, entitle you and that child to gobble up so many of the world’s resources (it’s not like you offered to offset the carbon footprint your child is going to case, by eliminating your own), cause my property taxes to increase to pay for public schools and infrastructure while you get a tax break for having a child, and generally make life more uncomfortable because of crying, screaming children. And here it goes. Thank you for providing the perfect case study for my thread. I appreciate it. Here’s what it comes down to. Children are not people. They are resource consumers as opposed to the ‘people’ who choose not to have children. What entitles YOU and YOUR parents to gobble up the Earth’s resources? Do you offset the carbon footprint of your car? Your house? Your pets? That’s the bottom line. Childfree is a political ideology that believes that children are not people. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/173 "2010-01-04T21:43:56Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Then perhaps you should have thought twice or three times about having kids. There is an old saying: Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part which I think should be applied to parents. Because you don’t have the resources and infrastructure to do things properly doesn’t mean someone else should be drafted into doing it for you or suffer needlessly for it. If your child is uncontrollable leave him or her at home until they can be civilized or be prepared for people to hate your guts and wish both of you were dead. Consider yourself fortunate that no one acts on those impulses. I love my dogs, but when we leave the yard, they are put on leases. And one of my dogs is a retired search and rescue dog that has contributed more to improving human life on this planet than any child ever could. Are you for real? Your _dogs_ have contributed more to improving human life than _any child_ could? 😃 I rather suspect you are deluding yourself over your parent’s ability to _never_ take you in public as a baby. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/174 "2010-01-04T21:46:30Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Furthermore, why should your decision to have a child, based solely on YOUR ENTITLEMENT ISSUES, entitle you and that child to gobble up so many of the world’s resources (it’s not like you offered to offset the carbon footprint your child is going to case, by eliminating your own), cause my property taxes to increase to pay for public schools and infrastructure while you get a tax break for having a child, and generally make life more uncomfortable because of crying, screaming children. Why exactly should we prioritize _you_ over **mswas** ’s kid? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/175 "2010-01-04T21:47:55Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Are you for real? Your _dogs_ have contributed more to improving human life than _any child_ could? 😃 > > I rather suspect you are deluding yourself over your parent’s ability to _never_ take you in public as a baby. Clearly the circumstances of his sequestration have created a deep and abiding misanthropy. It’s funny that he thinks his dog contributes more than ‘any child could’ though his dog was once a puppy and wasn’t contributing anything as a puppy, and when it worked as a rescue dog there was a person who managed that dog, so whatever rescue that dog participated in can also be credited to the ‘child’ that grew up into an adult and worked with it in the rescue operations. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/176 "2010-01-04T21:49:59Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > \ > Post one instance of a CBC person in either these threads who has claimed to be oppressed. I was wondering that myself, but I didn’t want to waste my time wading through this thread again (once was more than enough). Any other Dopers want to do the dirty work? I think I’ve claimed that people don’t always mind their own business, but I don’t think I went as far as claiming oppression of my people at any point (the “my people” thing is a joke, by the way, for the humour-impaired - hyperbole for effect, I believe this one is). ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/177 "2010-01-04T21:50:33Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No I’m not. That’s some bullshit you just made up. Like I said, bigotry. > > Except I do take care of my children. And as long as you behave like an entitled brat when you should be able to behave like a real adult, the rest of us will continue to heap scorn upon you. > > Be that as it may though. There is no excuse for wishing death upon children. It’s disgusting anti-life bigotry and should not be condoned or tolerated. If you condone and tolerate it then you have nothing of value to tell me about how I should raise my children. I do not take the opinions of psychotic fanatics into account as to how I should raise my children. > > Based on what you are telling me right now it’s pretty obvious to me that your upbringing was not complete as it has left you bereft of certain necessary coping skills and the inability to separate your own internal monologue and hatred of children from the reality of real people who you are interacting with. > > That is not to say that extended family situations are not positive environments, but they can just as easily be toxic. Idealized philosophical fantasies are not applicable to the real world. People who were raised properly understand this. It appears you lack the necessary coping skills to deal with the fact that some of us do not think children are special snowflakes that should be worshipped and adored. There is nothing said on a childfree board that could not be found on an anti-metalhead, Star Trek, or partisan political board (left or right wing). I find it odd that you consider my perfectly normal childhood and the childhood of millions of children throughout history (seen occasionaly, but not heard) an idealized philosophical fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/178 "2010-01-04T21:54:24Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Why exactly should we prioritize _you_ over **mswas** ’s kid? I’m a tax paying citizens that’s contributing to society. Children are a burden on society until they can contribute; therefore, they should always come second to adults. But what childfree people are fighting far is simple equality, not a “prioritization” over children. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/179 "2010-01-04T21:56:53Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > It appears you lack the necessary coping skills to deal with the fact that some of us do not think children are special snowflakes that should be worshipped and adored. There is nothing said on a childfree board that could not be found on an anti-metalhead, Star Trek, or partisan political board (left or right wing). I find it odd that you consider my perfectly normal childhood and the childhood of millions of children throughout history (seen occasionaly, but not heard) an idealized philosophical fantasy. I don’t think having an extended family is something that should be looked down on. I just think it’s clear that this extended family did not raise you as properly as you claim because people who have been raised properly can cope with the fact that children sometimes cross their paths and sometimes are noisy. That’s the bottom line, you can’t cope, you’ve said so yourself. Now you are defending the right to say hateful and bigotted things because other people say hateful and bigotted things in other venues. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443/180 "2010-01-04T21:58:24Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Clearly the circumstances of his sequestration have created a deep and abiding misanthropy. > > It’s funny that he thinks his dog contributes more than ‘any child could’ though his dog was once a puppy and wasn’t contributing anything as a puppy, and when it worked as a rescue dog there was a person who managed that dog, so whatever rescue that dog participated in can also be credited to the ‘child’ that grew up into an adult and worked with it in the rescue operations. The dog and it’s handler didn’t do any of that as a puppyor a child, but as an adult handler and and adult dog. Adults contribute. Outside of the odd genius, children only consume and use. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childfree-is-anti-natalism-and-anti-natalism-is-bigotry/523443.md?page=10)