# Children speaking with the dead (ed. title per OP req.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952 "2009-08-01T03:23:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/101 "2009-08-08T01:34:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > What evidence? Nothing material has ever been found in the brain that can be attributed to consciousness. If consciousness is not in the brain why do lobotomies have such a profound effect? > [@](#): > > OK measure me a consciousness and tell me how big it is, How big is a graviton? > [@](#): > > how much does it weigh How much does a radiowave weigh? > [@](#): > > what color is it, What color are microwaves? Gamma rays? > [@](#): > > and exactly where is it. Again, lobotomies, hemispherectomies, SSRIs all point to consciousness being in the brain. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/102 "2009-08-08T04:45:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > UFOs also have rational explanations that do not require space aliens. what? like weather balloons or the planet Venus? or…what? ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/103 "2009-08-08T05:03:57Z")
> [@](#): > > To us, what non-skeptics are doing is discarding stuff that doesn’t fit their hypothesis. Specifically, the fact that human reports, memory, and conclusions are unreliable. (So unreliable in fact that science was invented specifically to counter that unreliabity.) Only when you reject the boring scientific explanations do the spiritual explanations seem to be the best or only explanation. Ummmm, skeptics ALSO discard stuff like doesn’t quite fit their hypothesis too. “Oh it doesn’t fit in with my hypothesis” " it’s just a one off thing" They can produce data…but if something jumps in that doesn’t fit 100%, they reject it. For example…I have a rare genetic syndrome. As a kid I went up to Boston (to The World’s Greatest University affliated hosiptials) constantly for apointments where they’d just give me a spiel that basicly went " AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet doesn’t fit any of the textbook descriptions of her syndrome. She’s too high functioning to have a particlar syndrome. So although her karyotype indicates that she has something odd, she doesn’t have the syndrome b/c she doesn’t match anything in the textbooks." (the textbook description of my syndrome is VERY dire. Worst case persistant vegatative state, best case severe mental retardation) I’ve also read and heard about people who function normally (or very close to it) despite having a brain difference. I even heard once about a little boy with hydranencephaly(no brain…just a bunch of fluid filled sacs) who is basicly normal) Heck…I have the mylien (white matter) of a 3-4 month old baby. (observed by MRI) Hypothesises and experiments can glean useful data…BUT they can also be flawed b/c they are designed by humans. Unless of course you’re Sheldon! 😉 I am not a “woo woo” type at all. God…at the gatherings for my condition there are these dumbasses who always want to do things like ghost walks etc. (OMG an orb! It MUST be a ghost and not say…a speck of dust) but at the same time, science can be incredibily beyond conservative. (oh that doesn’t fit into our accepted teachings/hypothesies) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/104 "2009-08-08T11:45:32Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > If consciousness is not in the brain why do lobotomies have such a profound effect? > > How big is a graviton? > > How much does a radiowave weigh? > > What color are microwaves? Gamma rays? > > Again, lobotomies, hemispherectomies, SSRIs all point to consciousness being in the brain. Actually, you are consciousness and surround the body. This explains more > **[The Magic Brain - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](https://aleroy.com/blog/archives/298/the-magic-brain)** > > The brain has been studied by researchers for over 100 years looking for consciousness. I know I am conscious, aware of myself, and my surroundings. I believe my consciousness would need The research is solid, there is no consciousness produced by the brain ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/105 "2009-08-08T12:59:27Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > [The Magic Brain - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/?p=298) For the last time-that is _not_ research. I would point out the difference between a blog based on blind conjecture and research, but since this has already been shown to you numerous times over the years, I can only assume that you will ignore it and plod on. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/106 "2009-08-09T15:25:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For the last time-that is _not_ research. I would point out the difference between a blog based on blind conjecture and research, but since this has already been shown to you numerous times over the years, I can only assume that you will ignore it and plod on. I would like to point out you have no proof of what you say. Nor do you have any respect for scientific research and studies. Nor do you have any respect for the millions of people who have experienced what you say is impossible. > [@](#): > > “I regard the existence of disincarnate spirits as scientifically proved, and I no longer refer to the skeptic as having any right to speak on the subject” > > \*\*Prof. James Hyslop, Columbia University > \*\* > “Unless there is a gigantic conspiracy involving some thirty University departments all over the world, and several hundred highly respected scientists in various fields, many of them originally hostile to the claims of psychical researchers, the only conclusion the unbiased researcher can come to must be that there does exist a small number of people who obtain knowledge existing either in other people’s minds, or in the outer world, by means as yet unknown to science.” > > **Prof. H. J. Eysenk, Chair of the Psychology Department, University of London** > > “I am absolutely convinced of the fact that those who once lived on earth can and do communicate with us. It is hardly possible to convey to the inexperienced an adequate idea of the strength and cumulative force of the evidence.” > > \*\*Sir William Barrett F.R.S > \*\* > “Despite the ambiguities inherent in the type of exploration covered in these programs, the integrated results appear to provide unequivocal evidence of a human capacity to access events remote in space and time, however falteringly, by some cognitive process not yet understood.” > > \*\*H.E. Puthoff, PhD > Institute for Advanced Studies, Austin > \*\* > I didn’t say it was possible. I just said it happened. > > **Sir William Crookes** I am thankful most people are willing to keep an open mind on subjects they don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/107 "2009-08-09T17:18:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I would like to point out you have no proof of what you say. Nor do you have any respect for scientific research and studies. Nor do you have any respect for the millions of people who have experienced what you say is impossible. > > I am thankful most people are willing to keep an open mind on subjects they don’t understand. Yeah, the world is filled with “open minds”. No more quotes about other peoples’ opinions, please-just give us direct links to the evidence itself. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/108 "2009-08-10T11:55:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah, the world is filled with “open minds”. > No more quotes about other peoples’ opinions, please-just give us direct links to the evidence itself. I have already supplied what you ask and plenty of it. Since you began to pass false statements about me on this board, I really can’t believe anything you say. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/109 "2009-08-11T01:21:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have already supplied what you ask and plenty of it. Since you began to pass false statements about me on this board, I really can’t believe anything you say. You have never supplied a link or a reference to an actual scientific study, so stop claiming that you have. You have quoted various people who might have been employed in the capacity of scientists expressing their personal, but never tested, beliefs. If you were content to say that some people who have dabbled in science share your beliefs, (without actually testing those beliefs), then you would be fine in a witnessing sort of way. Your insistence that “science” has ever supported any of your beliefs is not correct. On the other hand, you would do well to not accuse others of false statements when your own are less than forthright. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/110 "2009-08-11T13:33:21Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You have never supplied a link or a reference to an actual scientific study, so stop claiming that you have. You have quoted various people who might have been employed in the capacity of scientists expressing their personal, but never tested, beliefs. If you were content to say that some people who have dabbled in science share your beliefs, (without actually testing those beliefs), then you would be fine in a witnessing sort of way. Your insistence that “science” has ever supported any of your beliefs is not correct. > > On the other hand, you would do well to not accuse others of false statements when your own are less than forthright. > > Knock it off. > > [/Moderating] Moderators piling on again, what you say is totally false as usual. But being a moderator makes it right. Yeah OK I will quit the thread for you. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952/111 "2009-08-11T15:26:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Moderators piling on again, what you say is totally false as usual. But being a moderator makes it right. Yeah You have been Warned for this in the past. Stop it. > [@lekatt](#): > > OK I will quit the thread for you. You can post in this thread if you wish. You are simply instructed to refrain from making false claims about what you have posted and accusing other posters of making false claims. [/Modding] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-speaking-with-the-dead-ed-title-per-op-req/504952.md?page=5)