# Children taken at the Border When Parents are Charged with Misdemeanors **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247 "2018-06-17T04:01:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/1 "2018-06-17T04:01:37Z")
Breaking news from Chris Hayes on MCNBC: > [@](#): > > From twitter > BREAKING: According to internal CB[P] documents obtained by @allinwithchris, from June 3-11, fully _ **91%** _ of parents being prosecuted at the border and forcibly separated from their children are being prosecuted for a _misdemeanor._ (CBP - Customs & Border Patrol) This situation gets worse the more we learn about it. Does anyone know if any protests are planned against the separation of children from their family at the border? ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/2 "2018-06-17T04:32:13Z")
Since 2008, the United States has had a policy known as the Alien Transfer Exit Program (ATEP). The program separates male immigrants from their families. Obama had 8 years to dismantle this program, but failed to do so. (Where were the protests during the Obama administration?) President Trump is continuing this 10 year old program. Its nothing new and it certainly didn’t start with the present administration. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/3 "2018-06-17T05:06:33Z")
The Alien Transfer Exit Program picked up illegal immigrants in one location and dropped them off in a completely different location. For example, someone picked up in the Rio Grande area might be taken to Mexicali and released there. The idea was that this would discourage drug smuggling and human trafficking rings, people who regularly went back and forth across the border, in other words, by inconveniencing them or worse. This [article in the NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/06/14/us/politics/ap-us-immigration-fact-check.html?login=google) gives a good overview of what is happening now, and why it is different than earlier policies or laws. > [@](#): > > SANDERS: “The separation of illegal alien families is the product of the same legal loopholes that Democrats refuse to close and these laws are the same that have been on the books for over a decade and the president is simply enforcing them.” > > THE FACTS: The Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy is responsible for spurring family separations. Court rulings do not mandate that course. > > Zero tolerance means that when a family is caught sneaking into the U.S., the parents now are routinely referred for criminal prosecution, even if they have few or no previous offenses. That typically means detention for the adults, pending their trial. Under U.S. protocol, if parents are jailed, their children are separated from them because the children aren’t charged with a crime. > > Until the policy was announced in April, such families were usually referred for civil deportation proceedings, not requiring separation. There is a 2008 law that Trump is referring to (and it may include the ATEP, I can’t enough details to get clarity on that): > [@](#): > > Trump has been blaming “bad legislation passed by the Democrats,” as he recently put it, for driving families apart. But the 2008 law he appears to be referring to passed unanimously in Congress and was signed by a Republican president. It was focused on freeing and otherwise helping children who come to the border without a parent or guardian. It does not call for family separation. I started this thread not because I thought Dopers were unaware of the situation where children being removed from their parents (although perhaps we need more discussion of the topic), but because it appears it is happening for misdemeanors, which often don’t require jail time. Jail time being the slim pretext that justifies the removal, the bald-faced use of these children as a negotiating tactic to force democrats to pass immigration legislation is sickening. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/4 "2018-06-17T06:55:24Z")
When an AMERICAN criminal is arrested and convicted and jailed for breaking the law, he/she is separated from his/her children and the rest of his/her family. That’s part of the penalty for breaking the law. The family suffers, too. That’s just the way it works. Illegal aliens face the same consequences. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/5 "2018-06-17T09:59:13Z")
And you see no difference between separating the father from the family, and removing the children from BOTH parents? They’ve created a gulag to traumatize children, as a punishment for their parents. Where is the Christian outcry at this development? Is this what they meant by family values? A stunned works watches America’s descent, and shudders. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/6 "2018-06-17T11:06:54Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Where is the Christian outcry at this development? Is this what they meant by family values? Well, they can’t be Christians because they’re brown, so they don’t deserve any outcry. And I’m pretty sure this action reflects the values of far too many families. It’s a sad, disgusting time in this country… And for the sarcasm-impaired, I do not subscribe the the first 2 comments I made in this post. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/7 "2018-06-17T11:40:22Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > When an AMERICAN criminal is arrested and convicted and jailed for breaking the law, he/she is separated from his/her children and the rest of his/her family. That’s part of the penalty for breaking the law. The family suffers, too. That’s just the way it works. Illegal aliens face the same consequences. AMERICAN children aren’t put in camps when their parents commit misdemeanors, so that isn’t the way it works. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/8 "2018-06-17T12:03:05Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > When an AMERICAN criminal is arrested and convicted and jailed for breaking the law, he/she is separated from his/her children and the rest of his/her family. That’s part of the penalty for breaking the law. The family suffers, too. That’s just the way it works. Illegal aliens face the same consequences. It astounds me that people are defending this policy. It is true that the prosecution of American criminal behaviour causes the entire family to suffer, and (I think) that it is nevertheless a net good to society. However, there are some key differences. 1. Children of American criminals are still embedded in their community, with (usually) a remaining custodial parent and (more importantly) the same school, friends, and extended family. Border-crossing children are in transition. That is the parents’ fault, not the US government’s fault, but nevertheless it is a fact and we should be cognizant of it. 2. Children of American criminals typically speak the language of their society and have some experience functioning within it. Border-crossing children more often speak Spanish or another language. Separating them from their parents does not usually mean transferring them to the care of people who are fluent in their language. I think holding illegal aliens, adults or children, for up to, say, 72 hours is reasonable. Creating a record of their data is reasonable. Naturally, this is going to be unpleasant and scary for the children, who have already had a rough time. So there’s a degree to which some harm is unavoidable without compromising the greater good. But to _ **deliberately** _ make things worse for the children by separating them from their adults in an effort to punish the parents or to score political points is unconscionable. That is what this policy does. Remember that the children, by definition, are not criminally responsible for crossing the border illegally. We should be making every effort to minimize their trauma, even if it costs us. If Obama’s administration did this or something similar, that’s equally appalling and I am sorry I did not know about it to protest. There is a lot of room to disagree over things this administration is doing, but you need to draw the line at supporting evil. Seriously. Oh, and one other point **Mr. Mallard** brought up yesterday: if you want to create terrorists, this is a pretty good way to do it. Send these kids home with horrible memories and nothing to lose. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/9 "2018-06-17T12:08:10Z")
I like the mural of Trump these kids are forced to look at every day, though. These kids need to know who their enemy is. If they’d been smart the Republicans would be telling these kids Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama is responsible for this, but for some reason the Republicans have chosen this moment to be honest for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/10 "2018-06-17T12:55:49Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Where is the Christian outcry at this development? Is this what they meant by family values? > . It’s there, read the news. From denominational statements to “faith leaders,” including the otherwise-assholish Franklin Graham, there’s a lot of outcry. Just Google “Christian children border separation” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/11 "2018-06-17T16:37:37Z")
Even the [Southern Baptists](http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/1188/on-political-engagement)are separating themselves from the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/12 "2018-06-17T16:51:05Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Where is the Christian outcry at this development? Is this what they meant by family values? When conservatives invoke their christianity, it is only in the service of justifying their mistreatment and dehumanization of others. Conservatives believe that being a christian gives them justification for hatred of those they are already predisposed to hate. They skip any of the passages that talk about love an forgiveness as they do not match their world view. Just as these “christians” justify their hatred of homosexuals, while breaking other laws that are in the very same bible verse by explaining that they are cafeteria christians that only take the parts of the bible that they like seriously, as they are picking and choosing what parts of the bible they want to follow, they leave all the stuff that Jesus talked about in not judging, and in forgiving and in loving your fellow human being at the counter, but take double helpings of all the stuff about hate. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/13 "2018-06-17T18:17:47Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > When an AMERICAN criminal is arrested and convicted and jailed for breaking the law, he/she is separated from his/her children and the rest of his/her family. That’s part of the penalty for breaking the law. The family suffers, too. That’s just the way it works. Illegal aliens face the same consequences. These people have often not even been charged yet, let alone been convicted. Again, the vast majority of the charges are misdemeanors, which typically do not require jail time. This policy started in APRIL and is not the result of any former administration. Any statements to the contrary are lies. This is an attempt to force Democrats to cave to Republican immigration policy demands. I hope this costs them big at the mid-terms. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/14 "2018-06-17T18:24:59Z")
Moreover, trying to treat one thing (lawful seeking of asylum) like another thing (American citizen criminals) is disingenuous on its face. The people coming to our borders and presenting themselves for asylum are refugees, fleeing persecution and trying to enter in a lawful manner. Instead, they are arrested and treated as criminals. The fault begins with those who want to characterize these issues as two sides of the same coin. It’s shameful and it’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/15 "2018-06-17T18:28:27Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It’s shameful and it’s just wrong. Trump 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/16 "2018-06-17T19:33:49Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > When an AMERICAN criminal is arrested and convicted and jailed for breaking the law, he/she is separated from his/her children and the rest of his/her family. So you think we shouldn’t separate the children until the parents have actually been tried and convicted? Great, go tell Trump that what he’s doing is bullshit then because these families aren’t being broken up after a trial and conviction. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Even the [Southern Baptists](http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/1188/on-political-engagement)are separating themselves from the Republicans. The United Methodist church (of which Sessions is a member) [has responded](https://www.umcjustice.org/news-and-stories/a-shocking-violation-of-the-spirit-of-the-gospel-697) to Sessions claiming the law is “Biblical” by saying, in barely veiled language, “That’s bullshit and you’re fucked up for claiming it.” > [@](#): > > To argue that these policies are consistent with Christian teaching is unsound, a flawed interpretation, and a shocking violation of the spirit of the Gospel. > > Administration officials have used the Christian text of Paul’s Letter to the Romans — his first and weightiest epistle — to justify their actions. The ethical teachings of Romans 12-16 describe that consecrated Christian life requires the duties of love and hospitality. The commandment in Chapter 13 to “be subject to the governing authorities” is bracketed by preceding and following passages containing the command to “love.” > […] > Jesus is our way, our truth, our life. The Christ we follow would have no part in ripping children from their mothers’ arms or shunning those fleeing violence. It is unimaginable that faith leaders even have to say that these policies are antithetical to the teachings of Christ. > > Christian sacred texts should never be used to justify policies that oppress or harm children and families. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/17 "2018-06-17T20:33:08Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Since 2008, the United States has had a policy known as the Alien Transfer Exit Program (ATEP). The program separates male immigrants from their families. Obama had 8 years to dismantle this program, but failed to do so. (Where were the protests during the Obama administration?) > > President Trump is continuing this 10 year old program. Its nothing new and it certainly didn’t start with the present administration. Even setting aside **Sunny Daze** ’s description of how things are a little different right now, I guess your opinion is that you approved of this then and continue to think it’s just spiffy now? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/18 "2018-06-17T20:53:30Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > So you think we shouldn’t separate the children until the parents have actually been tried and convicted? Great, go tell Trump that what he’s doing is bullshit then because these families aren’t being broken up after a trial and conviction. > The United Methodist church (of which Sessions is a member) [has responded](https://www.umcjustice.org/news-and-stories/a-shocking-violation-of-the-spirit-of-the-gospel-697) to Sessions claiming the law is “Biblical” by saying, in barely veiled language, “That’s bullshit and you’re fucked up for claiming it.” The Bible does have conquerers/occupiers rip open women to separate them from their child. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/19 "2018-06-17T20:58:48Z")
Don’t mince your words, what are you trying to say? That because of that this is justified somehow? ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247/20 "2018-06-17T21:17:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The Bible does have conquerers/occupiers rip open women to separate them from their child. Yeah, but it’s the bad guys doing it. Hardly an endorsement. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/children-taken-at-the-border-when-parents-are-charged-with-misdemeanors/816247.md?page=2)