# Children's lit/film/whatever that's just TOO dated for safety **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887 "2009-08-09T23:26:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/41 "2009-08-10T19:40:05Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I know the original editions of The Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew mysteries had some ‘racist’ elements. So did the original Tom Swift, but there were some subtle differences. All the black characters in the first few Nancy Drews were evil and threatening. Tom’s black helper shuffled, spoke funny, but while being portrayed in a racist way was a positive character, even heroic in some books. He got replaced by the fat Texan cook in the Tom Swift Jr. series. Just as stereotyped. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/42 "2009-08-10T19:44:38Z")
I would worry more about the moral ideas the books are telling, rather than whether they use the correct word-of-the-decade. …which means, if you’re atheist, you should be more concerned about books that show religion as the only source of morality. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/43 "2009-08-10T19:48:02Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > I do not have my copy of Mary Poppins with me, but I did look on Google books and on Amazon and neither of them bring up any mention of the word “nigger.” I don’t know whether they were using bowdlerized editions, however (the Google Books one looked pretty old, so I doubt it). Well, this isn’t proof of use of the word “nigger,” but the [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Poppins) article definitely claims the chapter _Bad Tuesday_ has been bowdlerized because of racism. FWIW, the first relevant google hit on\* Mary Poppins nigger\* is this thread. The only thing I can contribute to this thread (besides Curious George and his ether trip, which I remember from my childhood - hey - that reminds me - there’s a Bugs Bunny cartoon with ether - is that intact?), is the native depictions in _Little Nemo in Slumberland_, which wouldn’t appeal to the modern kid anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/44 "2009-08-10T20:13:38Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I’m not talking about the hysterical “updatings” of Grimms or Andersen as not progressive enough; I’m talking about egregious things such as the racism in my examples. The Grimm Brothers weren’t exactly beacons of tolerance themselves. Read [The Jew Among The Thorns](http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/grimm/bl-grimm-jew.htm). ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/45 "2009-08-10T20:22:31Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Well, this isn’t proof of use of the word “nigger,” but the [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Poppins) article definitely claims the chapter _Bad Tuesday_ has been bowdlerized because of racism. Ah! Yes, I did read that version as a child… okay, then, yes, I can see that chapter being perceived as racist, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the word nigger was used. IIRC, Michael uses Mary Poppins’ magic compass to meet various people from different parts of the globe (Africans, Eskimos, …Indians? I forget the others). However, my takeaway message was something more like “Those imaginary people seem really cool. Michael is a real jerk.” In particular, a) yeah, they were horribly stereotyped, but they were far nicer than the protagonist, and b) they were so clearly fantastic stereotypes that it didn’t even register on me that they weren’t imaginary, the same way that I didn’t really believe I was going to see talking animals or women hanging the stars in the sky. Though I would have liked to! ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/46 "2009-08-10T20:32:34Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > I have a stack of old Tintin books that once belonged to my father. Most of them are probably still fit for modern-day children, but I’d feel really uncomfortable sharing the one where Tintin goes to the [Congo](http://www.lomag-man.org/actu%20news/tintinCongo_big.jpg), or his adventures in [China](http://chinfluenza.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/tintinmouse.jpg) in The Blue Lotus. > > Definitely un-PC by today’s standards, but things have changed a lot in the past 90 years. Did you actually read that Tintin? Thomson and Thompson are being followed and made fun of because of their anachronistic and stereotyped dress. The twins are portrayed as being dead wrong in their stereotypes. [Here’s](http://chinfluenza.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/tintin-in-leuven/) what the blog you linked to says. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/47 "2009-08-10T20:38:16Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Did you actually read that Tintin? Thomson and Thompson are being followed and made fun of because of their anachronistic and stereotyped dress. The twins are portrayed as being dead wrong in their stereotypes. > > [Here’s](http://chinfluenza.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/tintin-in-leuven/) what the blog you linked to says. I would have thought Tintin was somewhat _modern_ - in portraying an alternative lifestyle approvingly, shacking up with a much older Captain Haddock. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/48 "2009-08-10T21:29:52Z")
I’ve got my mother’s 1940 edition of _Mary Poppins_ right here, and the chapter 'Bad Tuesday" does not contain the word ‘nigger’ at all. It’s got racist elements, but not that word. When they go south, they meet a man and a woman, \*“both quite black all over.” \* A few lines later it says, _“On the knee of the negro lady sat a tiny black piccaninny with nothing on at all.”_ A few lines later: _“Ah bin ‘specting you a long time, Mar’ Poppins,” she said, smiling. “You bring dem chillun dere into ma li’l house for a slice of water-melon right now.”_ The implication is that they’re in Africa, but the dialogue sounds like they’re on the set of _Gone With The Wind_. Racist and dated, sure, but the word ‘nigger’ is never used. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/49 "2009-08-10T22:02:39Z")
> [@](#): > > …which means, if you’re atheist, you should be more concerned about books that show religion as the only source of morality. I’m religious, and I’d still be concerned about books that show religion as the only source of morality. I’m not sure I can think of any examples of such, though. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/50 "2009-08-10T22:24:14Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I don’t believe books need to be “sanitized for your protection”. In a school setting, the books can be presented in the context of the times. Things that were commonly accepted then are not acceptable now. That kind of thing. If you cut the racially insensitive parts of _Huckleberry Finn_, you won’t have much book left. Uh, nobody’s saying they should be. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/51 "2009-08-10T22:25:45Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Uh, nobody’s saying they should be. But didn’t you yourself say that “egregious” slurs/epithets should be changed to protect children? ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/52 "2009-08-10T22:48:23Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > In the Walter Matthau version of **The Bad News Bears** , Matthau’s character actually hits a kid on the baseball diamond, right in front of both teams, parents, god, and everybody. While the character was sort of marginalized for doing so, nothing was said to him about hitting kids. > > In the Billy Bob Thornton version of the same movie, the confrontation scene is whitewashed so as not to include the child beat down. > > Personally, I prefer the Matthau version, simply because it more accurately reflects the childhood of the 70s that I remember so vividly. That’s more like what it was like growing up back then, than the sanitized version reflects _my_ childhood. If you grew up in the late 80s or 90s, then the Thornton version may speak to you more, personally. Wasn’t it Vic Morrow, who played the win-at-every-cost hypercompetitive coach of the rival team, who did that instead of Matthau? As I remember the scene, Morrow thought his pitcher was slacking in the league championship game against the Bears so he went out to the mound and ended up knocking him around. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/53 "2009-08-10T23:58:04Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Wasn’t it Vic Morrow, who played the win-at-every-cost hypercompetitive coach of the rival team, who did that instead of Matthau? As I remember the scene, Morrow thought his pitcher was slacking in the league championship game against the Bears so he went out to the mound and ended up knocking him around. Yeah, I remember Vic really ended up losing his head in that flick. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/54 "2009-08-11T00:06:50Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Yeah, I remember Vic really ended up losing his head in that flick. No, not _that_ flick. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/55 "2009-08-11T07:07:05Z")
Vic didn’t join the Rotary Club until _Twilight Zone: The Movie._ ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/56 "2009-08-12T17:41:46Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Did you actually read that Tintin? Thomson and Thompson are being followed and made fun of because of their anachronistic and stereotyped dress. The twins are portrayed as being dead wrong in their stereotypes. > > [Here’s](http://chinfluenza.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/tintin-in-leuven/) what the blog you linked to says. Of course I’ve read the books. That particular panel was the first one I found in a quick Google search. It’s perhaps not the best example, since it involves people making fun of Dupond and Dupont (aka Thomson and Thompson) as you point out. Even so, anyone who’s read the book would agree that there are still several Asian characters who are drawn in a style that would be pretty offensive nowadays - check out the Japanese character [Mitsuhirato](http://www.arvindswarup.com/photos/uncategorized/mitsuhirato4.jpg), for one. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/57 "2009-08-12T18:03:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > In the very first Babar book, Babar goes to the city … and becomes a gigilo for an older lady (she gives him her purse to buy nice clothes, then gives him a car … ). 😃 “. . .and that, children, is why the elephant has a trunk”.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/58 "2009-08-12T19:00:29Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > Even so, anyone who’s read the book would agree that there are still several Asian characters who are drawn in a style that would be pretty offensive nowadays - check out the Japanese character [Mitsuhirato](http://www.arvindswarup.com/photos/uncategorized/mitsuhirato4.jpg), for one. How is that “offensive”? It just looks like a caricature to me. To me, “offensive” needs to be deliberately mean-spirited and trying to cause emotional harm to the target. I can’t imagine Herge doing that. When the olympic team from South America (was it Argentina or Brazil?) made the slant-eyed faces and Americans went nuts, they responded, basically, that they were just being silly and didn’t mean anything negative by it, and (U.S.) Americans are obsessed with race/racism and see it everywhere. That’s basically how I feel about this. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/59 "2009-08-12T23:28:39Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > I would worry more about the moral ideas the books are telling, rather than whether they use the correct word-of-the-decade. > > …which means, if you’re atheist, you should be more concerned about books that show religion as the only source of morality. Eh. I grew up reading and re-reading egregious religious glurge like [Teddy’s Button](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10880/10880.txt), and this dreadful book about an orphan boy who is adopted by an organ grinder and shows him the way to Christ right before the old bugger keels over from cirrhosis, leaving organ and money conveniently to said orphan boy, and I turned out a perfectly sound atheist, albeit with a soft spot for orphan boys with organ grinder’s monkeys. [Aha, found it!](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21997/21997.txt) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887/60 "2009-08-12T23:57:13Z")
Not quite children’s movies but… **Sixteen Candles** –Date rape is fun! **Revenge of the Nerds** –Date rape is fun! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-lit-film-whatever-thats-just-too-dated-for-safety/505887.md?page=4)