# Children's Protective Services: Ask Me Anything **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 5, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750 "2017-11-05T04:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/1 "2017-11-05T04:39:12Z")
Per demand from a different thread, let’s do this. I have been a CPS investigator for 8 years, give or take. In that time I estimate to have done maybe 900 investigations. What do you want to know about the system? What have I seen? What are your rights? What are we really thinking when we come to your house? Ask away! To my understanding there are a few more posters on this board who do this line of work. Please, hijack this and get in here! Climb aboard, the more the merrier! Every state is different and it is interesting to hear my fellow workers’ tales of mismanagement and underfundedness! Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/2 "2017-11-05T04:54:16Z")
Is any kind of spanking considered okay? In my small, rural community I see it go on all the time, I often wonder if these parents could be considered abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/3 "2017-11-05T05:17:05Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Is any kind of spanking considered okay? In my small, rural community I see it go on all the time, I often wonder if these parents could be considered abusive. No bruising means it wasn’t abusive. I caution parents that they are playing with fire but generally if they didn’t leave a mark (and we aren’t allowed to view a child’s buttocks), it is fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/4 "2017-11-05T05:22:58Z")
How has the increasing prevalence of people recording things, often by capturing video with cell phones, affected your investigations? Is a common case different compared to someone working in this field a generation earlier because of that? Whenever I’ve heard about CPS (or services performing the same function under a different name) in the news or in interviews, it seems like staff shortages, high turnover, and case managers having to log long hours are issues that come up. Do you think there are any places in the states where child welfare is being adequately funded and managed? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/5 "2017-11-05T05:32:41Z")
What if you actually saw it happen, is that cause for charging. What if a second party saw it or bruises. Why can’t you look at bottoms, seems to me that is where most marks would be. I raised my 3 children without spanking, ever, much to the consternation of my in-laws. They were never perfect, but they were pretty good. So I know it can be done. I see people all the time beating what appears to be challenging children, I would think that would be ones who definately don’t need spanking. But who am I to judge? ---
**Author:** ![hocow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hocow/32/4112_2.png) [@hocow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hocow)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/6 "2017-11-05T14:13:27Z")
I also do this line of work. We are allowed to view any area on a child’s body based on allegation. If there is an allegation of injury to the buttocks, we will look and take pictures as necessary to document everything. In PA, it is not illegal to use physical discipline, but one cannot cause significant injury. In response to Covfefe, [here](http://www.wfmz.com/news/southeastern-pa/pa-auditor-general-releases-report-on-child-welfare-system-1/621203302) is an article which links to [State of the Child](http://www.paauditor.gov/Media/Default/Reports/RPT_CYS_091417_FINAL.pdf), which is a report done by the Auditor General. It gives an accurate representation of the child welfare system. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/7 "2017-11-05T14:35:06Z")
Is it true that anonymous reporting permits all kinds of misuse of CPS as a way of getting revenge on a neighbor or a vicious prank on someone the caller doesn’t like (who isn’t guilty of child abuse at all)? Has this gone up or down over the years, and what can be done to crack down on it that doesn’t also prevent people from phoning in legit abuse? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/8 "2017-11-05T15:05:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Is it true that anonymous reporting permits all kinds of misuse of CPS as a way of getting revenge on a neighbor or a vicious prank on someone the caller doesn’t like (who isn’t guilty of child abuse at all)? Has this gone up or down over the years, and what can be done to crack down on it that doesn’t also prevent people from phoning in legit abuse? I had questions along similar lines: Was/Is there any good way for CPS to summarily dismiss a false phone report? Before it even gets to the point of an investigatory home visit? Also: if you do get out to a home to investigate, and it’s basically a real-life _Leave it to Beaver_ household … what do you do if the anonymous tip was especially salacious? Parents are super-engaging and friendly … kids are super-well-adjusted and engaging, and not the least acting odd around the parents. I mean, is there an ethic of “_Nah … this is too good to be true … the anonymous tipster possesses all the right and correctness in the Universe, and this family must be up to their necks in abuse! Get the kids outta here pronto!_” Ahem. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/9 "2017-11-05T15:20:20Z")
Around here there was a rash of non-custodial parents ratting on custodial parents, trying to get easing of restrictions. I have heard horror stories. Can you guys tell when this happens? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/10 "2017-11-05T15:29:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Is it true that anonymous reporting permits all kinds of misuse of CPS as a way of getting revenge on a neighbor or a vicious prank on someone the caller doesn’t like (who isn’t guilty of child abuse at all)? Has this gone up or down over the years, and what can be done to crack down on it that doesn’t also prevent people from phoning in legit abuse? I don’t work in the area but I DID make a series of anonymous calls regarding abuse many years ago. I was told at the time that just calling and saying “Ms Smith abuses her kids!” won’t get much traction. At most, there would be a cursory visit by CPS. If, however, you make such a call with verifiable information like I did - specific descriptions of injuries and scars, dates and times, very specific facts - it’s more likely to generate an investigation, and certainly more useful to investigators. This all happened about 40 years ago, though, I’m sure some things have changed since then. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/11 "2017-11-05T15:33:34Z")
People who abuse the system that way really should be ashamed of themselves. I can’t imagine much more selfish than taking away needed resources from truly endangered kids just to satisfy some personal vendetta. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/12 "2017-11-05T18:07:20Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Was/Is there any good way for CPS to summarily dismiss a false phone report? Before it even gets to the point of an investigatory home visit? I was a CPS worker in NYC for about 8 years. It depends on exactly what you mean by a “false report”. If the report alleges behavior that would actually constitute abuse or neglect if it was true , it must be investigated. Even if there were multiple unfounded reports previously made about the same family. There are a couple of reasons for this- one is that the fact that a report is unfounded does not necessarily mean the allegations weren’t true\*. A second is that even if we somehow knew the first four reports were false (not just unfounded) that doesn’t mean the fifth one can’t be true. But not all phone reports are accepted for investigation in my state. In order for the report to be accepted, it has to contain allegations that would constitute abuse or neglect if they were true. A report alleging that a 12 year old is home alone after school for a couple of hours would not be accepted unless the the allegation included some reason that this particular 12 year old should not be left alone. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/13 "2017-11-05T18:35:08Z")
Parents have become more fearful, to the point that twelve year olds walking to school has become less and less common and many (most?) children are given a cell phone while young because it’s “dangerous” for them not to have one. How has this change impacted your job? At what age can a child be left alone for a bit? And what age do people think this is acceptable? (Probably not the same age.) Do you have experience working in different regions? A younger relative of mine is growing up in the suburbs (whereas I grew up in the city) and I have learned the difference is huge. No reliable public transit means her mother has to drive her everywhere, which means no flexibility, plus everything is so spread out that few things are within walking distance. She can’t even go to the library after school to study, she either has to take the school bus or get picked up by her mother and will be taken straight home. When I was a kid I was given (and eventually bought) bus tickets, so I always had a few extra, plus I could stop and study at a library within walking distance from home. In short, it seems like a relatively minor change in location creates a very different lifestyle. I have no experience with a rural lifestyle but I assume, along with positive differences, that the transportation issue would be even more severe there. (The lack of transportation isn’t the problem for her. The lack of freedom is contributing to her problem though.) I read a web page about renting to own fairly recently, and in at least two cases the collectors noticed children wearing “dirt slippers” (barefoot in a home so dirty their soles are permanently blackened). I assumed schools would notice children being neglected so much, but apparently not (as the children hadn’t been removed). Is it possible to hide this kind of abuse? If a child **might** have a mental illness but refuses to cooperate with a therapist who could potentially make a diagnosis, what can be done? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/14 "2017-11-05T19:10:26Z")
A bit tangential - a feel-good story from the UK about child protection services that worked, with a good outcome 10 years later. Early one morning a traumatised 11 year old boy walked into a police station with a story of years of physical and emotional abuse by his father. In his letter 10 years later he says he remembers shocked faces, and lots of questions in 3 hours of recorded interviews. He was placed with a foster family the same day. The father later pleaded guilty in court after seeing the video interview, and absconded while on bail. The boy’s letter to his foster parents 10 years later, and their reply: > **[A broken little boy and the foster parents who saved him.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5044901/A-broken-little-boy-foster-parents-saved-him.html)** > > Joshua Smith never imagined he would go from a vulnerable 11-year-old boy to a successful young man, something he attributes to his foster parents Jane, now 54, and Bill Aiton, 58, from Walsall. (Keep the tissues handy!) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/15 "2017-11-05T19:34:06Z")
I have read multiple accounts by CPS workers, current or former, that they NEVER received an abuse report for anything that turned out to be legitimate discipline. I think most people know the difference between swatting a toddler on the rear end, and deliberately burning or cutting a child, or breaking bones, to “teach them a lesson”. :mad: I’ve had 3 people unfriend and block me on Facebook for constantly posting memes about how children should basically be tortured regularly and live in a state of constant fear in order to grow up to be responsible adults. :eek: What always prompted the unfriending, etc. was when I would ask them if they thought it was also OK for men to do this to their wives. Must have hit a little too close to home. I also understand that separated parents calling CPS on each other when it isn’t warranted is a big no-no, and can lead to revocation of custody or visitation rights. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/16 "2017-11-06T14:46:36Z")
To what extent do race and class resentments factor into CPS assessments? Anecdotally, it’s widely thought that many CPS workers are minorities and/or from lower middle class backgrounds, and are more likely to come down hard on upper middle class white families. (IIRC, I mentioned this in a prior thread on the subject and it was seconded by someone else with (professional?) experience in this area, but I’d like further input if possible.) ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/17 "2017-11-06T17:27:22Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > Parents have become more fearful, to the point that twelve year olds walking to school has become less and less common and many (most?) children are given a cell phone while young because it’s “dangerous” for them not to have one. How has this change impacted your job? > > At what age can a child be left alone for a bit? And what age do people think this is acceptable? (Probably not the same age.) > \ Thinking about this, do you get a lot of calls from people reporting unaccompanied minors walking by themselves? What is the most common nature of any anonymous reporting you receive? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/18 "2017-11-06T17:29:12Z")
A friend of mine and his wife went through several issues with CPS responding to false allegations of abuse. They would never release the complainant’s name to him. Isn’t there some recourse for families that are abused like that? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/19 "2017-11-06T17:51:42Z")
Are you ever coming back? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/20 "2017-11-06T17:56:04Z")
In my case, I never revealed my name to CPS - they couldn’t have told the abuser what my name was even if they wanted to do so, and really knew no more than I was female and a teenager with very specific and accurate information. I don’t think they passed even that on. So it’s possible that CPS didn’t know their identities, either. I was not required to reveal mine, and did not do so out of concerns for both my own safety and my mother’s, who was homebound next door to the harpy while recovering from heart surgery. Recourse? I don’t know. It’s not fair to families falsely accused. On the other hand, when I was overhearing the harpy talking to a “friend” about hiring someone to find out who was reporting her and then hiring someone to “take care” of them I was sort of happy that she _didn’t_ know my identity. She was pretty graphic about what she wanted done to the people upsetting her gravy train. Then when the kids were questioned at school, their injuries revealed, all of a sudden it wasn’t just one person involved and the harpy wound up skipping town. Bad luck for her that the teenagers she hired all sent her forwarding address to CPS. The folks in Michigan couldn’t do much as she moved to Colorado, but maybe they forwarded some information to the authorities there? Hey - that’s a question - does CPS in such situations ever forward information to another state? Did our CPS worker here ever receive such information from another state? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750.md?page=2)