# Children's Protective Services: Ask Me Anything **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 5, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750 "2017-11-05T04:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/21 "2017-11-06T18:09:20Z")
sSnce getting certified in a hockey sock of sexual trauma victim support and bystander training, I heard that the cases of false rape/sexual assault reporting is on par with most other major crimes, with one exception - custody cases. So much so, that reports of sexual abuse disclosed during custody battles make them very nervous - Did you find the same? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/22 "2017-11-06T19:50:50Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Are you ever coming back? He’s in Poster Protective Services. As soon as he gets his new identity stabilized he’ll pop up again. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/23 "2017-11-06T20:14:29Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Are you ever coming back? This is an Ask Me Anything thread. If you want answers, that’s somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/24 "2017-11-06T20:15:10Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > This is an Ask Me Anything thread. If you want answers, that’s somewhere else. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/25 "2017-11-06T20:25:29Z")
I believe they do have some state to state records sharing. I heard a lady talking about this. She believed her grandchild was being abused by her exDILs new boyfriend. She kept up contact with the local CPS and they assured her they were still investigating even though they had moved out of state. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/26 "2017-11-06T21:22:08Z")
> [@Captain\_C](#): > > No bruising means it wasn’t abusive. I caution parents that they are playing with fire but generally if they didn’t leave a mark (and we aren’t allowed to view a child’s buttocks), it is fair game. OMG ! I can’t believe this ! You mean if no marks was left on a child they weren’t abuse ! My dad threw all kind of objects at my head , a metal lunch box with the thermos bottle still and a lunch box made in the 50’s . Dad was a boxer when he was younger and knew how and were to hit me so it wouldn’t leave any mark . Dad smacked me right on my hearing aid metal button that the ear mold was attach to . He use his violin this time and was standing right next to me and this left no mark but it hurt like fucking HELL ! I made a mistake while playing the piano , that was the last time I went near the damn piano ! I been thinking for years if any god damn fucking asshole did this to their child they would rot in jail ! I am 70 yo and the right side of my head is numb from being hit repeatedly everyday and this wasn’t from being abuse ! The Children’s Protective system is fucked up ! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/27 "2017-11-06T21:28:14Z")
I think the reference was to spanking a child on the bottom, not other forms of violence that may not leave a mark. Depriving a child of, say, sleep doesn’t leave a mark either but it would certainly be considered abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/28 "2017-11-06T22:12:57Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > sSnce getting certified in a hockey sock of sexual trauma victim support and bystander training, I heard that the cases of false rape/sexual assault reporting is on par with most other major crimes, with one exception - custody cases. So much so, that reports of sexual abuse disclosed during custody battles make them very nervous - > > Did you find the same? Is there something missing in your first sentence? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/29 "2017-11-06T22:40:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > To what extent do race and class resentments factor into CPS assessments? > > Anecdotally, it’s widely thought that many CPS workers are minorities and/or from lower middle class backgrounds, and are more likely to come down hard on upper middle class white families. (IIRC, I mentioned this in a prior thread on the subject and it was seconded by someone else with (professional?) experience in this area, but I’d like further input if possible.) My experience was the opposite- although many of my coworkers were minorities and/or from working or lower middle class backgrounds, they were not harder on upper middle class families. They were actually more likely to be intimidated by them. The only way in which they could be said to be “harder” on upper middle class families was if the situation was one dependent on finances. It’s one thing for children not to have adequate food, clothing or medical care because the parents do not have sufficient income and quite another for the parents not to provide them when they are financially able to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/30 "2017-11-06T22:51:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think the reference was to spanking a child on the bottom, not other forms of violence that may not leave a mark. Depriving a child of, say, sleep doesn’t leave a mark either but it would certainly be considered abusive. I asked the 'spanking question. I thought the answer was lame at best. If the butt of a child was bruised they wouldn’t know it cause they can’t look there. Stupidity reigns. I wouldn’t trust some of those people to investigate the existence of breathing much less child abuse! God help us !! ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/31 "2017-11-06T22:52:22Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Is there something missing in your first sentence? Just a stupid typo. “Since” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/32 "2017-11-06T23:56:37Z")
Hi again. Sorry I was without internet access yesterday. I’ll try to get to everyone’s question. > [@Covfefe](#): > > How has the increasing prevalence of people recording things, often by capturing video with cell phones, affected your investigations? Is a common case different compared to someone working in this field a generation earlier because of that? > > Whenever I’ve heard about CPS (or services performing the same function under a different name) in the news or in interviews, it seems like staff shortages, high turnover, and case managers having to log long hours are issues that come up. Do you think there are any places in the states where child welfare is being adequately funded and managed? Despite what I would have thought, cell phone footage is rare of any sort of abuse/neglect. The few times video has been a part of my investigation is generally a teenage child recording their parent at the encouragement of the non-custodial parent. Most of these cases appear to be custody related or one parent trying to use the child as a pawn. It’s sad. Regarding staffing: my state is one of a few dozen who have been sued over the past few decades, entering into a “consent decree”. This basically means there is federal oversight of our state’s system to bring caseloads down and have some sort of ability to do our jobs. Instead of an investigator having 40+ cases at a time, we are capped at 13. Sounds good in practice, but each case now takes three times as long because of all the added mandatory requirements and paperwork. I have yet to encounter a CPS worker in another state who had enough time or resources to do the job. It is a lot of unpaid overtime, snap judgements, and hoping that nothing goes wrong. We don’t like the system being that way but we do our best. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/33 "2017-11-07T00:01:11Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > What if you actually saw it happen, is that cause for charging. What if a second party saw it or bruises. Why can’t you look at bottoms, seems to me that is where most marks would be. I’m not sure what you mean by the first sentence but generally a credible witness is sufficient. For example, if a doctor or a teacher attests the child had bruises that would be a credible witness. If one parent calls on the other and they clearly are just trying to help their custody case we try to have more evidence to go on. We have a “preponderance of evidence” threshold, meaning 51% likely the abuse occurred. We can view buttocks or genitals with written consent from a parent if the child is under 3 years old. More than that we have the parent take the child for a medical exam. My state is very “pro parents rights” at this time due to some high profile lawsuits. The pendulum seems to swing the other direction about every 10 years or so. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/34 "2017-11-07T00:05:09Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I had questions along similar lines: > > Was/Is there any good way for CPS to summarily dismiss a false phone report? Before it even gets to the point of an investigatory home visit? > > Also: if you do get out to a home to investigate, and it’s basically a real-life _Leave it to Beaver_ household … what do you do if the anonymous tip was especially salacious? Parents are super-engaging and friendly … kids are super-well-adjusted and engaging, and not the least acting odd around the parents. I mean, is there an ethic of “_Nah … this is too good to be true … the anonymous tipster possesses all the right and correctness in the Universe, and this family must be up to their necks in abuse! Get the kids outta here pronto!_” > > Ahem. If what gets called in would be a violation of protection law if true, we have to go out. Any case with an anonymous referral source I pretty much guarantee was made vindictively. One of my opening lines when going out on something that seems vindictive is always “Well… piss anyone off recently?” It helps build rapport. We don’t have time to waste on clearly false complaints. I often tell people “no news is good news. If you don’t hear from me for a bit that means you are a low priority, which is the best place to be. If I feel the safety need to devote all of my time on your case, that’s when you should worry”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/35 "2017-11-07T00:12:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > To what extent do race and class resentments factor into CPS assessments? > > Anecdotally, it’s widely thought that many CPS workers are minorities and/or from lower middle class backgrounds, and are more likely to come down hard on upper middle class white families. (IIRC, I mentioned this in a prior thread on the subject and it was seconded by someone else with (professional?) experience in this area, but I’d like further input if possible.) Race and class investigations can be frustration. My county is the border of a mid-sized city which immediately turns into cow country. The border area is about 40% African American, while the rest of the county is white. I can guarantee most of the time a certain elementary school in the out-county calls us, it is going to be about one of their few minority students. Same with class, we have some fairly rich suburbs that have one or two low income trailer parks inside the school district. Guess which area we get called to more, despite that the rates of abuse are about equal… As far as “coming down harder”, I would almost say the opposite is true just because the richer families have more resources. Poor families tend to not know their rights as well, while richer families will “lawyer up” immediately and refuse to work with us. As far as staff background, we are all local so our demographic seems to run about the same as our clients in general. A few of us grew up rich, few poor, some minorities, some not. Regarding unaccompanied minors or leaving children home alone: there is no set age. Policy indicates that it is on a child by child basis. I’ve met some eight year olds who could recite off a safety plan of no using the stove, no answering the door, call mom at xxx-xxx-xxxx, call neighbor if help is needed, etc. I wouldn’t bat an eye at those kids staying home for the summer. I’ve also met 13 year olds who shouldn’t be trusted with anything sharp. Personally I stayed home myself after age 7 with a relative living next door, but that was 30 years ago. It’s also a factor of location. In the city area of our county it probably isn’t safe to let the kids be “free range” whereas the tiny cow-towns it is almost expected children play at the local park in packs until dinner time. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/36 "2017-11-07T00:21:51Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Just a stupid typo. “Since” I give then; what’s a hockey sock? OP, does the internet make your job easier or harder? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/37 "2017-11-07T00:22:30Z")
> [@Captain\_C](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by the first sentence but generally a credible witness is sufficient. For example, if a doctor or a teacher attests the child had bruises that would be a credible witness. If one parent calls on the other and they clearly are just trying to help their custody case we try to have more evidence to go on. We have a “preponderance of evidence” threshold, meaning 51% likely the abuse occurred. We can view buttocks or genitals with written consent from a parent if the child is under 3 years old. More than that we have the parent take the child for a medical exam. My state is very “pro parents rights” at this time due to some high profile lawsuits. The pendulum seems to swing the other direction about every 10 years or so. ok, that sounds more reasonable. I don’t how you guys get anything done with all the road blocks in place. There has got to be a better way. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/38 "2017-11-07T00:22:43Z")
There is record sharing between states, even though each operates independently, through something called the Interstate Compact. This means that all state CPS agencies voluntarily agreed to do each other’s face to face requirements if someone is in another state, and to provide records as necessary. The issue with this is there is no national database. If I don’t know that John Smith used to live in Oregon and he doesn’t tell me, it is likely I will never learn about his history there. When a client reports living in another state, I call their “report child abuse” intake line just like everyone else and make a request for information. > [@purplehearingaid](#): > > OMG ! I can’t believe this ! You mean if no marks was left on a child they weren’t abuse ! My dad threw all kind of objects at my head , a metal lunch box with the > thermos bottle still and a lunch box made in the 50’s . Dad was a boxer when he was younger and knew how and were to hit me so it wouldn’t leave any mark . Dad smacked me right on my hearing aid metal button that the ear mold was attach to . He use his violin this time and was standing right next to me and this left no mark but it hurt like fucking HELL ! I made a mistake while playing the piano , that was the last time I went near the damn piano ! I been thinking for years if any god damn fucking asshole did this to their child they would rot in jail ! I am 70 yo and the right side of my head is numb from being hit repeatedly everyday and this wasn’t from being abuse ! The Children’s Protective system is fucked up ! Well, there are several categories. I should clarify: No injury equals no Physical abuse. There are still categories for physical neglect, abandonment, threatened harm, mental injury, sexual abuse, maltreatment. What you describe could be considered physical abuse if an audiologist was able to say there was damage inflicted, even internally. If not, we would likely classify that under “maltreatment”, which is a catch all for “we don’t know what else to call it, but no reasonable person would do that to their kid”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/39 "2017-11-07T00:31:26Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I give then; what’s a hockey sock? > > OP, does the internet make your job easier or harder? I don’t know what a hockey sock is either. 🙂 Oh, way easier with the internet. People put their entire lives on Facebook. I can easily find my alleged prostitute clients with Craigslist or Backpage. One parent has all the text messages from the other parent threatening them or else they “will call CPS to make your life miserable”. Criminal history lookups, google street view, whitepages, voter registry, I can’t imagine doing my job before the internet became prevalent. One frustration is the older generation who haven’t raised kids in this environment. It is not possible to keep teenagers off of the internet anymore. We get a lot of cases of teens sending nudes to each other and some 60+ year old will call it in as Improper Supervision because the parent “wasn’t watching the teen close enough”. We can’t stop kids from communicating digitally anymore, so it is frustrating to have to explain that point over. And over. And over! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750/40 "2017-11-07T01:58:07Z")
> [@Captain\_C](#): > > … > Regarding staffing: my state is one of a few dozen who have been sued over the past few decades, entering into a “consent decree”. This basically means there is federal oversight of our state’s system to bring caseloads down and have some sort of ability to do our jobs. Given that the US only has 4 dozen states, it’s pretty sad that substantially all of them have had to be sued in federal court to do even a half-assed adequate job at something that’s so basic to the proper function of a government. Don’t worry, it’ll be even better in a few years when governments’ revenue is half what it is today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/childrens-protective-services-ask-me-anything/800750.md?page=3)