# Chili's in Cleveland, and other tales of missing chains **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082 "2004-02-01T20:20:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/1 "2004-02-01T20:20:04Z")
I know it’s a chain, but i liked being able to go to Chili’s with a newspaper, sit at the bar, and chow down on chips and salsa for a couple of hours. Can’t do that in Cleveland, unfortunately, because there’s only one Chili’s in the metropolitan area. Huh? There’s about three million people in the metropolitan area, but only one Chili’s restaurant, in suburban North Olmsted. Buffalo is also a city where many chains that are commonplace throughout the country are absent from the market. With that city’s economic dcline, national chains fel it’s more profitable to put their money elsewhere, even when that other palce might already be saturated with the chain or competitors; they’ll still get a better return than a new market like Buffalo. Harrisburg just got its first Starbucks, and Toledo only has one. In New Mexico, Santa Fe has six Starbucks, but the much larger Las Cruces area has none. In Denver’s Cherry Creek neighborhood, there are two full Starbucks stores within a block of each other. So, why is there only one Chili’s in Cleveland? What other US cities are missing very prominent chains? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/2 "2004-02-01T20:47:29Z")
New Orleans is (or at least was, when I lived there 10 years ago) a city like that. They have a thriving local restaurant scene, and the restaurant competition is pretty fierce. They seem to be getting more touristy now, but the truth is if you’re in New Orleans and eating at, say, Chili’s or O’Charley’s, you are missing the point. New Orleans has REAL neighborhhood bars where you can sit and drink beer and munch bar food that has stood the test of time, not focus groups. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/3 "2004-02-02T04:12:15Z")
Come out to Montrose. There’s one of everything there 🙂 Isn’t Akron still sometimes considered part of the “metropolitain” area of Cleveland? I think Harriet is on to something, tho. There’s so many nice non-chain restaurants in Cleveland, and so many are closing (check out the most recent PD Food sections), isn’t it best that there’s no Chili’s? Besides, the Winking Lizard and Paninnis are the same darn thing. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/4 "2004-02-02T13:28:57Z")
Along the same lines, there isn’t a single Red Lobster anywhere in Massachusetts, but they (used to) show commercials for it all the time. I asked once, and apparently it’s cheaper to do a bulk ad buy for the entire country than to buy 49 states’ worth of coverage. As for the lack of RL restaurants, probably it’s due to competition from well known local seafood ones. Now, why is NE so sorely lacking in the chain steak houses? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/5 "2004-02-02T14:22:11Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Buffalo is also a city where many chains that are commonplace throughout the country are absent from the market. With that city’s economic dcline, national chains fel it’s more profitable to put their money elsewhere, even when that other palce might already be saturated with the chain or competitors; they’ll still get a better return than a new market like Buffalo. Well, not all of the Buffalo metro area is in decline. A few “upscale” chains like Don Pablo’s have moved into the Amherst district, which is doing quite well economically. And there are a Red Lobster and an Applebee’s in Niagara Falls, and you don’t get any more economically depressed than that. Weirdly, some of the Canadian national chains are also descending on Amherst, so you get a bit of culture shock driving down Niagara Falls Boulevard to see Tim Horton’s and Swiss Chalet, well within the US border. ---
**Author:** ![TheLadyLion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d78d45/32.png) [@TheLadyLion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLadyLion)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/6 "2004-02-02T14:40:24Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Well, not all of the Buffalo metro area is in decline. A few “upscale” chains like Don Pablo’s have moved into the Amherst district, which is doing quite well economically. If the Don Pablo’s restaurant you mention is part of the same chain that is leaving out here in the Phoenix metro area, I am really shocked that you use the word “upscale” to describe it. We used to have one a few miles from our house, and the two times I went there for meals (at another person’s request), I was not impressed in the least. The food was lackluster and mediocre at best, the ambiance was poor and the service was so-so. They closed that restaurant several months ago, and I doubt it was to move to a bigger and better place. They just didn’t do enough good business for that. I would be shocked to see a Red Lobster in New England, in all honesty (of course, we have Taco Bell out here in AZ). With fresh seafood so plentiful there on the coast, to me it would be sacrilege to see anyone going into a RL, unless it was just to buy their Cheddar Bay Biscuits. Restaurants come and go because of demographics, I would imagine. What works in one area of the state or country will not work somewhere else. What appeals in Indiana may not appeal in Oregon. While we’re on the topic, when I was visiting family in Indiana a few years back, we went to The Outback. They have the most wonderful baked sweet potatoes on their menu. When I returned home to Phoenix and got some friends to join me at The Outback here, alas! NO SWEET POTATOES ON THE MENU! What’s up with that?? ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/7 "2004-02-02T18:38:01Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Along the same lines, there isn’t a single Red Lobster anywhere in Massachusetts, but they (used to) show commercials for it all the time. I asked once, and apparently it’s cheaper to do a bulk ad buy for the entire country than to buy 49 states’ worth of coverage. > > As for the lack of RL restaurants, probably it’s due to competition from well known local seafood ones. > > Now, why is NE so sorely lacking in the chain steak houses? 1. Red lobster - Why? We’ve much better seafood without it. There is one in “Nashvegas” (Nashua NH), but it’s usually empty(ish). 2. We have the Hilltop! Why would we need anything else! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/8 "2004-02-02T18:44:46Z")
> [@TheLadyLion](#): > > If the Don Pablo’s restaurant you mention is part of the same chain that is leaving out here in the Phoenix metro area, I am really shocked that you use the word “upscale” to describe it. I don’t think quotation marks set the tone I was looking for. I think I was trying to say “average food, but pricey.” Which, when it comes down to it, describes a lot of restaurant chains. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/9 "2004-02-02T18:53:10Z")
Ultimately, it’s determined by the availability of franchisees to open the chain. If no one wants to buy into the franchise, then you won’t see one in your area. There’s no one answer to why the chain isn’t available. There can be various reasons for lack of interest – too much competition already, general lack of interest by potential investors, etc. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/10 "2004-02-03T21:00:56Z")
There are White Castles in dipshit little towns in Indiana. But in Illinois, they are only in major metropolitan areas (Chicago and suburban St. Louis). I guarantee you that at least one Springfield resident will help keep a Springfield White Castle in business. WTF??? ---
**Author:** ![Sami41](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@Sami41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sami41)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/11 "2004-04-02T21:43:39Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Harrisburg just got its first Starbucks, and Toledo only has one. In New Mexico, Santa Fe has six Starbucks, but the much larger Las Cruces area has none. In Denver’s Cherry Creek neighborhood, there are two full Starbucks stores within a block of each other. Just an update. Around a year ago Barnes and Nobles moved into the Mall here in Las Cruces. There is a Starbucks there. I still haven’t been there. ---
**Author:** ![slu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/74df32/32.png) [@slu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slu)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/12 "2004-04-02T22:40:17Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Weirdly, some of the Canadian national chains are also descending on Amherst, so you get a bit of culture shock driving down Niagara Falls Boulevard to see Tim Horton’s and Swiss Chalet, well within the US border. I am originally from upstate NY, but haven’t been back for a while, so this surprises me…but when you start to see Harvey’s in the States…then we are in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![TBone2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@TBone2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBone2)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/13 "2004-04-02T23:18:37Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Weirdly, some of the Canadian national chains are also descending on Amherst, so you get a bit of culture shock driving down Niagara Falls Boulevard to see Tim Horton’s and Swiss Chalet, well within the US border. I’m not sure how “weirdly” it happened, but Tim Horton’s restaurants have “descended” all over the place here in Ohio. It may have something to do with the chain being owned by Wendy’s… ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/14 "2004-04-03T01:21:12Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Harrisburg just got its first Starbucks, and Toledo only has one. In New Mexico, Santa Fe has six Starbucks, but the much larger Las Cruces area has none. In Denver’s Cherry Creek neighborhood, there are two full Starbucks stores within a block of each other I heard this a few years ago, so the inforamtion could well be out of date, but there were no Starbuck’s at all in 5 states. I’m pretty sure the Dakotas are skinny on the latte front. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/15 "2004-04-03T01:30:40Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > the inforamtion could well be out of date According to [this article](http://www.dickwray.com/newsletter.cfm?issue_num=38&archive=yes) from April 2003 > [@](#): > > the only states without Starbucks units are Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and West Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/16 "2004-04-03T02:55:43Z")
Well, it takes money to open a Starbucks and that money would get a better return in richer/more populous states than those five. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/17 "2004-04-03T13:12:13Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Santa Fe has six Starbucks, but the much larger Las Cruces area has none. Might have something to do with the density of yuppies. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/18 "2004-04-03T13:32:07Z")
Alaska has 10 stores listed at the [starbuck’s web site](http://www.starbucks.com) store locator. North Dakota has 5. South Dakota has 3. Montana has 8. Apparently, West Virginia still has no Starbucks ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/19 "2004-04-03T19:43:59Z")
> [@Sami41](#): > > Just an update. Around a year ago Barnes and Nobles moved into the Mall here in Las Cruces. There is a Starbucks there. I still haven’t been there. It’s not a _real_ freestanding Starbucks, independent of other businesses. This is just IMHO, but a Starbucks counter in B&N or Target isn’t what I would call a full-blown Starbucks. ---
**Author:** ![Sami41](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@Sami41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sami41)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082/20 "2004-04-03T23:39:11Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > It’s not a _real_ freestanding Starbucks, independent of other businesses. > > This is just IMHO, but a Starbucks counter in B&N or Target isn’t what I would call a full-blown Starbucks. True enough. There’s Milagros, Spirit Winds and International Delights. Maybe the locally owned coffee shops are better for the area than a franchise anyway. But. . . Does that mean it’s not a full-blown Barnes and Noble, since it’s not free standing and independant of other businesses? 😉 . ~S [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chilis-in-cleveland-and-other-tales-of-missing-chains/227082.md?page=2)