# Chimpanzee delivered by c-section in a zoo - by OB/GYNs - how were they able to do that? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 19, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218 "2022-11-19T21:30:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/1 "2022-11-19T21:30:20Z")
I’m surprised that wouldn’t be an overstepping of their boundaries, unless they were assisting and not actually performing the procedure, and why wouldn’t a veterinarian know how to do that? I’m curious, based on this video that is going viral. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ECWs4armXA8/maxresdefault.jpg "Cuteness factor soaring at Sedgwick County Zoo") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECWs4armXA8) ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/2 "2022-11-19T21:44:07Z")
A chimpanzee is anatomically similar to a human. An OBGYN should have no problem doing that procedure on a chimp, gorilla, or orangutan. Why did they do it instead of a vet? Perhaps an experienced zoo vet wasn’t available in the area. Vets were involved in the procedure. Doing a C-section on a chimp isn’t necessarily something most vets would have experience doing, especially if there was a significant problem. According to the reporting, a chimp hadn’t been born at that zoo for 12 years. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/3 "2022-11-19T21:52:29Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’m surprised that wouldn’t be an overstepping of their boundaries, unless they were assisting and not actually performing the procedure According to local news reports, the two OB/GYNs were asked by the Zoo’s medical staff to perform the procedure. This would indicate that the vets employed by the Zoo were not trained (or confident) to undertake a c-section. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/4 "2022-11-19T22:31:33Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’m surprised that wouldn’t be an overstepping of their boundaries What boundaries would that be? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/5 "2022-11-19T23:04:04Z")
How were they able to do it? A #10 scalpel should do the trick. (+ forceps, retractors, hemostats, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/6 "2022-11-19T23:05:02Z")
But wouldn’t that be overstepping the boundaries of their licenses, unless they got special permission? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/7 "2022-11-19T23:07:01Z")
ETA: ninja’ed … I’m not the OP, but I suspect the “boundaries” they’re thinking of are licensing, liability insurance, and when you get right down to it, how confident a human doc really would be that they’ll recognize the necessary landmarks once they cut into a chimp and survey the different landscape in there. How different? Human doc has only a general idea of how different. OTOH, a C-section is not the most delicate or advanced of surgical procedures, and while nobody likes to lose either the fetus or the mother, having that happen to a chimp is far better than having it happen to a human. Somebody who does 3 human C-sections per workday and has done so for years is probably safer than somebody who’s read about them recently and did a rhinocerous C-section last year. A point not clear to me is how much advance study of books & pics & scans the MDs had a chance to do before cutting into the chimp. Armed with good 3D pix there may have been very little opportunity for them to be surprised once the cutting started. Nor do I (we?) know how much a zoo vet was standing alongside watching & kibitzing as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/8 "2022-11-19T23:13:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > OTOH, a C-section is not the most delicate or advanced of surgical procedures, and while nobody likes to lose either the fetus or the mother, having that happen to a chimp is far better than having it happen to a human. Somebody who does 3 human C-sections per workday and has done so for years is probably safer than somebody who’s read about them recently and did a rhinocerous C-section last year. This, I suspect, was a major part of it. Even if the zoo’s vets have decades of experience treating the zoo’s chimpanzees, they likely have never had to handle a c-section on one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/9 "2022-11-19T23:30:48Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > But wouldn’t that be overstepping the boundaries of their licenses, unless they got special permission? Do medical licenses include language about not being allowed to perform surgery on animals? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/10 "2022-11-19T23:43:40Z")
Veterinarians are the ultimate generalists of the medical world. They do every kind of procedure, on every animal species except one. On the other hand, you’ve got doctors who specialize in this exact procedure, on the species most closely related to chimpanzees. Sure, a chimp uterus is going to be a little different from a human uterus, but it’ll be a lot more like a human uterus than it is like a chimp liver, or spleen, or duodenum, and certainly more like a human uterus than like a horse liver, or a dog spleen, or a parrot duodenum. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/11 "2022-11-19T23:44:58Z")
ETA: @Darren_Garrison 2 posts up. I think I’d look at the regs from the other direction. There probably is a statute on animal protection that says something like “No one but a veterinarian licensed under Section 123.456c of this code shall perform surgery upon an animal.” Your standard MD almost certainly has no such license. Theirs was instead issued under Section 321.789b of the Health and Professions code. Obviously the likely legal get-around is having a vet in attendance to “supervise” the work on the chimp done by the MDs. Likewise I’d assume they have the veterinary equivalent of an anesthesiologist doing that part. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/12 "2022-11-19T23:45:09Z")
This article indicates that the two OB/GYNs in question have been collaborating with the zoo’s medical team on great ape pregnancies for some time, and had previously performed a c-section for one of the zoo’s orangutans: > [@](#): > > “Drs. Laura Whisler and Janna Chibry of College Hill OB-GYN were on hand to perform the cesarean section with the zoo’s veterinary team,” the SCZ said. “The pair have consulted with Sedgwick County Zoo veterinarians on all great ape pregnancies for the past decade — most recently delivering Sumatran Orangutan, Lily, via Csection in 2018.” > **[It’s a boy! Sedgwick County Zoo welcomes new baby chimpanzee](https://www.wfla.com/news/animals/baby-chimpanzee-reunited-following-c-section-zoo-releases-name/)** > > The Sedgwick County Zoo’s new baby chimpanzee was reunited with his mother on Thursday after being born on Tuesday, Nov. 15. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/13 "2022-11-20T00:28:44Z")
I have a feeling that chimps, with pelves more like bipedal humans than quadrupedal everything-else-at-the-zoo, are going to be more like what a human OB is accustomed to than what a large animal vet is accustomed to. Vets would be on-hand to administer GA, vitals, and intervene in an emergency. Sounds like the chimp is getting better care than lots of women in the US. Also, there’s plenty of cross-over that happens when there is necessity. My vet said that when our state was doing massive COVID vaccines, and the demand well-outstripped the ability to supply (to administer, more to the point), vets and vet techs were being solicited to administer shots. Many of the shots in Indiana were not given by nurses-- I have no idea what percentage, but here, the National Guard was “deployed” (it was the “two weeks” of many units in 2021). Medical units were giving the injections, and any person with training to give a shot was doing it, while other techs were doing things like monitoring for reactions, or down the road at the COVID test site. The people providing power and commo to the areas were units that did those things-- transport units were deployed to transport, and the security and public service/directions/etc. were infantry, and other units that did other things. Plus, some units were deployed to support the first-line troops. It was a fine time to be in the Guard. The kind of time one chooses the Guard over the Reserves for. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/14 "2022-11-20T01:13:48Z")
Calling @Qadgop_the_Mercotan , @DSeid , and @Jackmannii for a better answer. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/15 "2022-11-20T01:17:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Veterinarians are the ultimate generalists of the medical world I have a friend who is a vet. He mainly deals with dogs and cats, but as you say… his knowledge extends to birds and reptiles, and even fish. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/16 "2022-11-20T01:24:01Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > > > I’m surprised that wouldn’t be an overstepping of their boundaries > > What boundaries would that be? I read that and imagined the OP was thinking that another chimp should have performed the C-section. Does the Prime Directive say that humans aren’t allowed to interfere? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/17 "2022-11-20T01:25:05Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Does the Prime Directive say that humans aren’t allowed to interfere? “Dammit, Jim, I’m a doctor, not a large animal veterinarian!” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/18 "2022-11-20T01:26:05Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I read that and imagined the OP was thinking that another chimp should have performed the C-section. Well you know who the c-section was named after. > **[Caesar (Planet of the Apes)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_(Planet_of_the_Apes))** > > Caesar is a fictional character in the Planet of the Apes franchise. He is the leader of the apes in both the original and reboot series. Caesar is portrayed by Roddy McDowall in Conquest of the Planet of the Apes (1971) and Battle for the Planet of the Apes (1973), whose likeness is reprised in the comic series Tarzan on the Planet of the Apes (2016). Later on Andy Serkis portrays the character in the reboot series consisting of Rise of the Planet of the Apes (2011) Dawn of the Planet of the Ape... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/19 "2022-11-20T01:26:13Z")
I chuckled upon seeing that. but on a more serious note, Metallica singer James Hetfield, who was raised Christian Scientist, has said, “If a deer knew how to fix a broken leg, it would.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218/20 "2022-11-20T01:51:36Z")
All I’m going to say is that, given the unpredictable temperament of adult chimpanzees, you’d want to make sure the anesthesiologist was on the ball. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chimpanzee-delivered-by-c-section-in-a-zoo-by-ob-gyns-how-were-they-able-to-do-that/975218.md?page=2)