# Chin straps worn over the face in military dress parades - why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479 "2011-02-07T02:02:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/21 "2011-02-08T01:54:27Z")
Since everyone in the photo is wearing it that way, we can assume that that is how the chin strap should be worn. But why? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/22 "2011-02-08T02:31:30Z")
This has happened before, and it happened again. Curiosity got the better of me and I googled “military chin straps not under chin”. This thread was the first hit. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/23 "2011-02-08T04:24:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I mean, it isn’t as if there are not nicer periods/styles to choose from. Those "tarbucket"helmets must be a PIA to wear-why doen’t West Point change to civil war-type uniforms? Blue tunics and stetson hats-thats a cool look-and no white pants to get grass stains on. I’d honestly be surprised if the uniforms worn by the Westpoint cadets were ever actually worn by the US military as a whole. I always assumed it was some specific uniform to the Corps of Cadets there (similar to how the cadets at [Texas A&M](http://www.aggiecorps.org/the-corps-experience/types-of-uniforms.html) wear their uniforms that come in either the regular tan color scehme or the green-and-dark-pink “Midnight” color scheme. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/24 "2011-02-08T04:37:36Z")
The photo is not USMA, but the Citadel cadets on parade, not associated with the US Military in any real sense. Many cadets are on ROTC scholarship, but the parade uniform symbolizes a dress uniform of an era long past. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/25 "2011-02-08T04:41:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I agree. I think the Marine summer uniform, with the white pants (AND the white belts!), is the best-looking in the entire U.S. military: [http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/2946139910\_d6c7fb3d2a.jpg](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/2946139910_d6c7fb3d2a.jpg) Are those M-1 Garands? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/26 "2011-02-08T08:36:11Z")
They are 1903 Springfield rifles, the old-style version without the half-pistol grip stock. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/27 "2011-02-08T11:48:29Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > They are 1903 Springfield rifles, the old-style version without the half-pistol grip stock. You sure? Note what looks like the gas return under the barrel. Also, I don’t see the rear bolt protrusion. Pretty sure they’re Garands. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/28 "2011-02-08T11:51:08Z")
My WAG is that it adds a bit more uniformity to the group by obstructing a portion of the face. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/29 "2011-02-08T12:20:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Pfft. You wanna cool hat, you join the Pakistan Border Guards regiment: [http://images.travelpod.com/users/fishtails04/the\_big\_trip.1186698360.pakistan-border-guard.jpg](http://images.travelpod.com/users/fishtails04/the_big_trip.1186698360.pakistan-border-guard.jpg) Only, he’s from the Indian side. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/30 "2011-02-08T12:38:37Z")
Perhaps those straps originated in times when military personnel had major beards and moustaches and that had something to do with it? Total WAG, but if you have a beard, a chin strap lifts up the beard and makes it poke out like a bushy ponytail. Looks ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/31 "2011-02-08T14:49:56Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Only, he’s from the Indian side. Sorry. Google Images, and the photo caption, said he was Pakistani. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/32 "2011-02-08T14:52:27Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The round dress hat you’re talking about, I think, is called a “saucer cap.” I’m sure there’s a more official name for it too. [A peaked cap, forage cap or combination cap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaked_cap). The overseas cap is also known as the [garrison cap.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_cap) > [@](#): > > A garrison cap (in the United States), field service or wedge cap (in Canada), or forage cap (in the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth countries) is a foldable military cap with straight sides and a creased or hollow crown sloping to the back where it is parted. > [@](#): > > Other terms for this cap in semi-official and or slang usage include garrison cover, flight cap, side cap, overseas cap, envelope hat, piss-cutter cap, chip hat, and cunt cap. The Citadel and USMA parade uniforms are based on the [hussar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussar) uniforms of the early 19th Century. The Texas A&M uniforms are based on the US Army uniforms of the 1940s. Beards and mustaches went in and out of fashion several times during the 19th Century. Maastricht’s idea makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/33 "2011-02-08T14:56:31Z")
> [@UncleBill](#): > > The photo is not USMA, but the Citadel cadets on parade, not associated with the US Military in any real sense. Many cadets are on ROTC scholarship, but the parade uniform symbolizes a dress uniform of an era long past. I think you’re right. I hadn’t looked closely at the plates on the shakos (hats), or at the background (those castle-like buildings), but it does look like The Citadel in Charleston, S.C. Here are some West Point pics; note that the design of the gold-colored plate on the shako is different from The Citadel’s: [http://www.overlookonhudson.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/splash2.jpg](http://www.overlookonhudson.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/splash2.jpg) [http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/1125229.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FDD8E0DCEAB0C98C5089EA2C5FECC9336320B6DBF0C6083C67E30A760B0D811297](http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/1125229.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FDD8E0DCEAB0C98C5089EA2C5FECC9336320B6DBF0C6083C67E30A760B0D811297) [![](https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/stock-photo-military-academy-cadets-at-attention-for-reagan-s-funeral-procession-450w-450983.jpg) ](https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/stock-photo-military-academy-cadets-at-attention-for-reagan-s-funeral-procession-450w-450983.jpg) However, they’re also wearing the chin strap the same way as in the photo provided by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/34 "2011-02-08T15:17:17Z")
Here’s a picture of a [soldier with a goatee and an strap under his chin](http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/b/0/0/3e/8/AAAAC07ytFwAAAAAAD6Jvg.jpg?v=1238187464000). As you see, no problem. Here are some modern soldiers from an [army that apparently allows moustaches and maybe beards. They have the modern versions of over chin straps.](http://warrelics.eu/forum/military_photos/world-steel-helmets/116848d1277310523-m1-helmet-clone-73361023.jpg) Here are some 1[9 th century soldiers (French infanty) with big beards.](http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/89867190.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921CC759DF4EBAC47D0A671D7F9D0D224BCA664BFFAF649B13556B947858B5FEC64) I guess they would have worn under lip -straps when not in battle. So I’m convinced it’s beards. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/35 "2011-02-08T17:54:34Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I think you’re right. I hadn’t looked closely at the plates on the shakos (hats) I always thought shakos were taller. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/36 "2011-02-08T21:21:41Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I always thought shakos were taller. Not necessarily: [Shako - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shako) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/37 "2011-02-08T21:27:30Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > You sure? Note what looks like the gas return under the barrel. Also, I don’t see the rear bolt protrusion. Pretty sure they’re Garands. OK, I only glanced at the picture before. But now I’ve been studying it intensely. Yes, it is indeed an M1 Garand. But the stock is like no Garand I’ve seen. The “pistol grip” portion has been sanded down and the overall shape of the butt has been altered to look like an old-fashioned M1903. This must be a special kind of Garand used for Marine Corps drill teams. [This photo](http://www.yuma.usmc.mil/desertwarrior/2009/02/26/HiRes3.jpg) shows the same kind of rifle. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/38 "2011-02-08T22:10:32Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The “pistol grip” portion has been sanded down and the overall shape of the butt has been altered to look like an old-fashioned M1903. Indeed. I just looked at the barrel and receiver in the first picture. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/39 "2011-02-09T02:56:49Z")
Shakos can be many different heights and even differing widths or angles. I note that the French wear the chin straps under the chin (maybe the other is really a lip strap?). Since the French know do fashion so well, I can only assume the correct way to wear the strap is under the chin. Interestingly, a neighbor of mine is a military history buff, and he couldn’t explain the chin strap issue when I put it to him. I think he was all set to pull one of his books of the shelf and start reading it to me over the phone, he was so excited to have an audience. He did say that chin straps came about after shakos became popular military wear but that cavalry members would lose the hat while charging. Chin straps resolved the issue. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479/40 "2011-02-10T12:43:51Z")
Answer from a West Point Grad: (not much help, actually) Actually, below lower lip – because · under the chin looks stupid · we like it that way · that’s how they told me to do it · tradition [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chin-straps-worn-over-the-face-in-military-dress-parades-why/570479.md?page=3)