# China: 5 Million Homeless? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2008, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080 "2008-05-21T10:44:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/1 "2008-05-21T10:44:13Z")
I saw this on MSNBC and thought have I ever heard of such a colossal tragedy? How does a country, nay, the world address a monumental undertaking such as this? I can’t remember hearing of anything even remotely similar in all my life. Their would have to be a worldwide effort to even make a dent in something of this magnitude. One other thing that seems almost ridiculous to bring up is how in the world there isn’t already a thread about this _here_. Is it something so overpowering that one shouldn’t even discuss it? I ask _this_ question with my heart on my sleeve. I am not one prone to letting world events get me down but I am a little disturbed that I feel so utterly helpless to do anything about it. Where to start? What to do? Why hasn’t our government addressed it? I don’t want to come off like chicken little but I am almost flabbergasted. I’ve never even used that word one time in my life where I actually grasped it’s definition. So what say ye, fellow dopers? Have we finally met our match? [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24732245/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24732245/) I can’t beleive I forgot the link, it doesn’t really seem like we need it but someone will chastise me for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/2 "2008-05-21T10:53:32Z")
Not to put a damper on your mourning, but the US has 3 million homeless, with 11 million on the precipice having a high risk of becoming homeless. ([Cite](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec02/homeless.html)). Not saying that mitigates anything in China, but as a proportion the problem is greater here. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/3 "2008-05-21T10:55:00Z")
Wow, you are really taking this to heart! I wouldn’t worry too much. This is a big challenge, but China is a big country. The cities in that area (where I’m going next month!!!) are absolutely huge and I think that they won’t have too hard of a time absorbing people. The weather is okay, it seems like food and medical care are available, and China has plenty of experience resettling large populations. Not that this is a picnic or anything, but I don’t think it’s unmanagable. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/4 "2008-05-21T10:55:14Z")
This horrible event has woken me from a dead sleep. I would just like to say I pray this is the watershed event that finally opens the eyes of the world to the sufferings ot those less fortunate than ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/5 "2008-05-21T10:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Not to put a damper on your mourning, but the US has 3 million homeless, with 11 million on the precipice having a high risk of becoming homeless. ([Cite](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec02/homeless.html)). Not saying that mitigates anything in China, but as a proportion the problem is greater here. [/QUOTE] Damper on my morning? Are you completely serious? ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/6 "2008-05-21T11:08:02Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] I can’t remember hearing of anything even remotely similar in all my life. [/QUOTE] You might be surprised at some of the death tolls from [flooding of China’s Yellow River](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/flood/deluge.html): > [@](#): > > In 1887 flooding killed nearly two million people, in 1931 the death toll was almost four million, and in 1938 it was almost one million. [NOAA](http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s334b.htm)[sup]\*[/sup] says that the 1931 flood > [@](#): > > was the most severe, with over 51 million people affected (1/4 of China’s population). So, sadly, this last week’s earthquake _doesn’t_ exactly raise the bar for natural disasters in China. _[[sup]_[/sup]Yes – “NOAA” reports on floods. If the subject weren’t so tragic, the diluvian jokes could just write themselves… ☹ ]\* ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/7 "2008-05-21T11:18:36Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Not to put a damper on your mourning, but the US has 3 million homeless, with 11 million on the precipice having a high risk of becoming homeless. ([Cite](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec02/homeless.html)). Not saying that mitigates anything in China, but as a proportion the problem is greater here. [/QUOTE] That cite isn’t from any news place I’ve ever heard of. And just to be absolutely clear you said MOURNING? That is one of the rudest things I have ever heard in my life, SIR. I show concern for my fellow humans and you wan’t to minimalize the whole thing with some rinky dink cite and an insult to top it all off? If you were within arms reach I would swat you with a rolled up newspaper for that smart remark. You are not worth the water and earth you are made of, SIR! How about some actual discussion of the topic or did you just stop in to insult me? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/8 "2008-05-21T11:24:28Z")
You haven’t heard of PBS? Oh well. And may I say, you’re a mite touchy this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/9 "2008-05-21T11:30:43Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You haven’t heard of PBS? Oh well. And may I say, you’re a mite touchy this morning. [/QUOTE] PBS is local broadcasting for the most part? Is it not? I don’t think I’ll ever desire to have any recourse with you after that insult and more importantly your minimalization of such a tragedy. I think you’ve summed yourself up pretty well there my friend. Peace be with you. HIJACK OVER ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/10 "2008-05-21T12:19:35Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You haven’t heard of PBS? Oh well. [/QUOTE] PBS didn’t make the claim. They reported a claim from an advocacy group from six years ago. And I am afraid I don’t believe them. Too reminiscent of Mitch Snyder, who later admitted to having pulled a figure out of his ass regarding homelessness back during the 80s. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that this figure was much the same. If you have a real cite, feel free. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/11 "2008-05-21T13:21:56Z")
Shodan is correct. Serious Scholarship puts homeless in the U.S. at around 300,000 most of which have serious drug abuse issues or mental illness. 300,000 isn’t tiny, perhaps, but the 3 million number was indeed pulled out of Mitch Snyder’s tiny mind on a whim to say a big number to “impress” people. The media, not being very bright, never questionedit. Since then it has floated around, everyone citing somebody else, and most of them never having a clue what the number meant (i.e., nothing). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/12 "2008-05-21T13:40:18Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] One other thing that seems almost ridiculous to bring up is how in the world there isn’t already a thread about this _here_. [/QUOTE] What’s to debate? China is a Communist country where the government, at least in principle, takes responsibility for taking care of people in situations like this. If they should fail in that responsibility there’ll be a debate, but it’s too soon to tell. The only relevant debate at present, really, is about public corruption in China. This disaster need not have been quite so bad if the buildings in the affected towns had been built to code and not on the cheap and if certain officials had not been greased to ignore the substitution of inferior materials. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/13 "2008-05-21T13:53:19Z")
[Homelessness in the United States:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States#Statistics_and_demographics) > [@](#): > > **Statistics and demographics** > Completely accurate and comprehensive statistics are difficult to acquire for any social study, but especially so when measuring the ambiguous, hidden, and erratic reality of homelessness. All figures given are estimates. In addition, these estimates represent overall national averages; the proportions of specific homeless communities can vary substantially depending on local geography. > > The mobile and often hidden nature of homelessness makes this group difficult to accurately survey. The last rigorous attempt at estimating annual homeless prevalence in the United States was undertaken by the 1996 National Survey of Homeless Assistance Providers and Clients (NSHAPC).[7] Annual homeless prevalence was estimated at between 1.58 million (based on October/November four-week count) to 3.49 million (based on February seven day count).[8] Most, though not all, advocates use the higher estimate of over 3 million, especially since homelessness is thought to have risen since 1996. > > Lifetime homeless prevalence measured in 1990 by Bruce Link and colleagues found 7.4% or 13.5 million people reported experiencing literal homelessness.[9] These estimates were tabulated from telephone interviews and thus most likely excluded all currently homeless individuals. > > Some estimates from various sources on the characteristics and number of homeless people: > > **Total Number** > As many as 3.5 million people experience homelessness in a given year (1% of the entire U.S. population or 10% of its poor), and about 842,000 people in any given week.[10] > > \*\*Familial composition[11] \*\* > 40% are families with children—the fastest growing segment. > 41% are single males. > 14% are single females. > 5% are minors unaccompanied by adults. > 1.37 million (or 39%) of the total homeless population are children under the age of 18.[12] > > \*\*Ethnicity[13] \*\* > 49% are African American (compared to 11% of general population). > 35% are Caucasian (under-represented compared to 75% of general population). > 13% are Hispanic (compared to 10% of general population). > 2% are Native American (compared to 1% of general population). > 1% are Asian-American (under-represented compared to 4% of general population). > > \*\*Health-concerns[14] \*\* > 22% are considered to have serious mental illnesses, or are disabled. > 30% have substance abuse problems. > 3% report having HIV/AIDS. > 26% report acute health problems other than HIV/AIDS such as tuberculosis, pneumonia, or sexually transmitted infections. > 46% report chronic health conditions such as high blood pressure, diabetes, or cancer. > 55% report having no health insurance (compared to 16% of general population). > 58% report having trouble getting enough food to eat. > > \*\*Backgrounds[15] \*\* > 23% are veterans (compared to 13% of general population). > 25% were physically or sexually abused as children. > 27% were in foster care or similar institutions as children. > 21% were homeless at some point during their childhood. > 54% were incarcerated at some point in their lives. > > \*\*Education[16] \*\* > 38% have less than a High School diploma. > 34% have a High School diploma or equivalent (G.E.D.). > 28% have more than a High School education. > > \*\*Employment[17] \*\* > 44% report having worked in the past week. > 13% have regular jobs. > 50% receive less than $300 per month as income. > > \*\*Location[18] \*\* > 71% reside in central cities. > 21% are in suburbs. > 9% are in rural areas. > > \*\*Duration[19] \*\* > 80% of those who experience homelessness do so for less than 3 weeks. They typically have more personal, social, or economic resources to draw upon. > 10% are homeless for up to two months. They cite lack of available or affordable housing as responsible for the delay. > 10% are so called “chronic” and remain without housing for extended periods of time on a frequent basis. They typically struggle with mental illness, substance abuse, or both. > > Somewhat different data seem to be presented in the full demographics reported in the 1996 NSHAPC survey which include: > > **Family status** > > 61% Single men > 15% Single women > 12.2% Women with children > 4.6% Other women > 5.3% Other men > 2.3% Men with children > > **Racial demographics of head of household** > > 41% White, non-Hispanic > 40% Black, non-Hispanic > 11% Hispanic > 8% Native American > 1% Other > > **Length of current homeless period** > > 5% Less than one week > 8% Greater than one week, less than one month > 15% One to three months > 11% Four to six months > 15% Seven to twelve months > 16% Thirteen to twenty four months > 10% Twenty-five to sixty months > 20% Five or more years > > **Lifetime self-reported alcohol, drug and mental health problems** > > 62% Alcohol > 58% Drugs > 57% Mental health > 27% Mental health and alcohol or drug (dual diagnosed) ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/14 "2008-05-21T14:37:36Z")
Well I realize that China is in fact a communist country, one of the last in the world, but on a global scale I find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be some sort of effort mounted to at least try to send come help from the wealthier countries in the world. I am dismayed to say the least our own leader hasn’t even had a state of the union address between this and Myanmar. We gravely need a leader that we as country can beleive in and one that the rest of the world might even show the smallest amount of respect for. It’s disgusting in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/15 "2008-05-21T14:42:02Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] I am dismayed to say the least our own leader hasn’t even had a state of the union address between this and Myanmar. [/quote] Nitpick: Those are only done once a year and we’ve already had this year’s. I suppose W might have done a TV appearance to ask for aid, or promise U.S. government aid, but he’s been busy with his Middle East tour. Anyway, Myanmar’s government has a problem with **letting** outsiders help, and we have no reason to believe, as yet, that China can’t deal with the situation with its own vast resources. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/16 "2008-05-21T14:43:54Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] If you were within arms reach I would swat you with a rolled up newspaper for that smart remark. You are not worth the water and earth you are made of, SIR! How about some actual discussion of the topic or did you just stop in to insult me? [/QUOTE] Threats and insults are not appropriate responses to expressions of differing opinions. I cannot figure out what “insult” you perceived, but you would be better off not responding to it “in kind.” (You will both also [refrain from carrying this to other threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9824099#post9824099).) [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/17 "2008-05-21T14:51:31Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Threats and insults are not appropriate responses to expressions of differing opinions. I cannot figure out what “insult” you perceived, but you would be better off not responding to it “in kind.” (You will both also [refrain from carrying this to other threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9824099#post9824099).) [/Moderating] [/QUOTE] Well gee Tom, if I have to spell it out for you the word mourning as opposed to morning. I suppose you nothing wrong with that now do you? Please try to remember, I tried to bring this up in a PM so as not to cause you any distress. What with the _sighing_ you normally do when you feel bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/18 "2008-05-21T14:55:48Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Well I realize that China is in fact a communist country, one of the last in the world, but on a global scale I find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be some sort of effort mounted to at least try to send come help from the wealthier countries in the world. I am dismayed to say the least our own leader hasn’t even had a state of the union address between this and Myanmar. We gravely need a leader that we as country can beleive in and one that the rest of the world might even show the smallest amount of respect for. It’s disgusting in my opinion. [/QUOTE] Wealthier countries? The US isn’t even in the top 10. ([Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita).) Maybe you should be asking why Luxembourg, Norway, and Qatar aren’t helping more. ---
**Author:** ![Duhkecco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8491ac/32.png) [@Duhkecco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duhkecco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/19 "2008-05-21T16:08:03Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Wealthier countries? The US isn’t even in the top 10. ([Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita).) [/QUOTE] According to your cite, the U.S. nominal GDP per capita is ranked 11th by IMF, 8th by the World Bank, and 10th by the CIA Factbook. All of those ranks lead to the conclusion that the U.S. is one of the “wealthier” countries. I think, though, that you’re disputing the relevance of a country’s wealth in allocating responsibility. > [@Omegaman](#): > > Where to start? What to do? Why hasn’t our government addressed it? Well, you could contact government officials and elected members and encourage them to address it. Or, you could donate: > **[Google](https://www.google.com/)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. [Global Giving](http://www.globalgiving.com/china.html?rf=ggad_chinaearthquake1&gclid=CJWGy7T7t5MCFQWxsgodiGXCDA) Or, you could go to China and help directly. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080/20 "2008-05-21T16:11:55Z")
[QUOTE=Duhkecco] I think, though, that you’re disputing the relevance of a country’s wealth in allocating responsibility. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s it. That’s the ticket. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-5-million-homeless/450080.md?page=2)