# China creates orwellian monitoring system to tie political dissidence to credit scores **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964 "2015-10-08T22:43:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/41 "2015-10-10T03:49:31Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > The same China that would rather you kill a pedestrian with you car than injure him is gonna magically start spending extra money to take care of old people who don’t physically or monetarily contribute to society anymore? Actually, yes. Chinese culture is deadly serious when it comes to care for the elderly (and some of the ways we treat our elderly basically horrify them, notably the practice of packing Gran-gran away to a home because it’s just more convenient). It’s, again, part and parcel of Confucianism thought, which has seeped through the fabric of Chinese society since before Jesus was in diapers. It’ll take more than a few waves of a red flag to do away with it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/42 "2015-10-10T11:55:30Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And you know what? They know what they are doing. It worked in China. When my mom grew up, they’d talk about the hungry kids in China, not Africa. China is one of the extremely small set of countries that has actually managed solve extreme poverty. So we should probably step back a moment before saying we know better. It’s not about knowing better. It’s about knowing HOW China accomplished this, and how evil they’ve had to be to accomplish what they are accomplishing. It’s not that I don’t think China can help them. It’s that I worry they can, and it will set back the development of democracy in the region. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/43 "2015-10-10T15:12:04Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > My guess is that it will stay “middle income” for the foreseeable future. And that’s not a bad place to be, especially if they can work through some of the problems caused by growth outpacing regulatory capavility. I think that too many people get caught up with the idea of China “catching up” or not to the US, when the real story is about how spectacular it is to have a country that large reach comfortably middle income status. > > It’s hard for me to compare China to other places, as mid-tier cities are just so massive and populated. A teacher at a low-ranked state college in my smallish city could expect to live with their spouse and parents/in-laws in a newly renovated condominium that was well appointed but not spacious. They probably wouldn’t own a car, but might be taking driving lessons in anticipation of getting one. They would have a good food an entertainment budget, and would eat out on the weekends at local restaurants and maybe see a movie. But they probably couldn’t afford more expensive restaurants regularly, including the newly opened KFC. They could have a nice wardrobe from very good mid-scale Chinese retailers, but couldn’t afford the Western brands regularly. They’d be able to go to massages and day spas now and then, and maybe belong to a yoga club. Lots of money would go back home to the relatives in the village, or to tutors and piano lessons for the kid. I guess it depends on how you define middle income, but the cutoff between middle income and high income is about 13k per capita income, in PPP China is already there but not in nominal terms. If China can maintain 7% growth rates, they will transition out of middle income status and into the lower ranges of upper income status around 2022. Who knows if they can maintain 7% for that long though. Plus who knows if that means China will actually become a middle class society. My impression is China now consists of tons and tons of people who still live on $2/a day or less, a growing middle class ($5-50 a day in income) and then a wealthy class. It isn’t like a western european nation where everyone is middle class, China still has something like 200+ million people living on $2/day or less. I guess my hope is that by the 2030s China will have hit 20k+ in inflation adjusted per capita income, which would be nice because that would mean China would play a huge role in helping humanity solve the biggest issues of the 21st century. China, despite being a middle income country is already working on becoming an R&D powerhouse to compare to Silicon Valley. If there is a cure for Alzheimer’s disease or an electric car that only costs 5k in the next few decades, I’m hoping Chinese R&D will play a big role in making that happen. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/44 "2015-10-10T15:28:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s not so much an Orwellian system as a Confucian one - heavy on both individual meritocracy\* and group punishment/conformist peer pressure. Don’t knock it - it’s worked for China for over 3000 years. > [/size] Well, worked in the sense they sat on their asses for 3000 years. If it wasn’t for the West they would still be sitting on their asses. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/45 "2015-10-10T15:47:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Actually, yes. Chinese culture is deadly serious when it comes to care for the elderly (and some of the ways we treat our elderly basically horrify them, notably the practice of packing Gran-gran away to a home because it’s just more convenient). > It’s, again, part and parcel of Confucianism thought, which has seeped through the fabric of Chinese society since before Jesus was in diapers. It’ll take more than a few waves of a red flag to do away with it. You realize that Confucian thought also is strong on the family, right? How do you suppose the one child policy fits into that thought? Basically, this train left the station decades ago. China (or the CCP) crushed those multi-thousand years of tradition, and continues to attack them at every turn while paying lip service to them when it suits their needs. As to the elderly, stuff like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFEac7epzIE) happens (YouTube video talking about officials cracking down on burials and forcing cremation in 2014, with the result of a spike in elderly deaths so they could get buried before the, um, deadline). I think you are totally underestimating the impact the CCP and their ‘few waves of a red flag’ has had on China. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/46 "2015-10-10T15:58:36Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Well, worked in the sense they sat on their asses for 3000 years. > > If it wasn’t for the West they would still be sitting on their asses. If by “sat on their asses” you mean “lead the world’s largest, most stable, most prosperous and most advanced civilization in the entire world”, then sure. Chinese agriculture alone was more advanced and productive in the year 0 than it was in Europe in the 1700s. [QUOTE=XT] I think you are totally underestimating the impact the CCP and their ‘few waves of a red flag’ has had on China. [/QUOTE] And I think you’re overestimating the powers of an autocracy. The CCP _have_ to “pay lip service” to it, as you say, because the people would revolt if their government directly attacked stuff that is fundamentally dear to them. I don’t really see how the One Child policy runs against the Confucianist framework though, care to elaborate ? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/47 "2015-10-10T16:07:43Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > So you are implying the average citizen in China cares more about government censorship/oppression than they do about earning a living or about environmental pollution? I think that they are able to multi-task and care about more than one thing at a time. That said, there is sort of an unwritten/unvoiced pact between the government (the CCP) and the people…give prosperity and ever increasing standards of living and you can do pretty much what you want. That’s why the government sort of panics when things go wrong wrt the economy. Basically, they don’t know what they are doing, and when they try and ‘fix’ stuff it often leads to much worse issues that they didn’t’ anticipate. It’s a high wire act with the worlds second largest economy and one of the most powerful military’s on the planet, which is really, really terrifying. People should take more note of this stuff and really look into China more closely instead of during election years when politicians in the US trot them out to beat on. > [@](#): > > You may have misread my statement. What I said was that the average Chinese citizen (not the government) cares more about environmental pollution and escaping from poverty than they do about government oppression. If so, as China gets wealthier and fewer people are poor and pollution goes down people may redirect their anger at government oppression instead. Maslows hierarchy of needs. Economic survival and avoiding pollution seem more important to the average Chinese citizen than fighting against censorship. You realize that China is one of the most polluted countries in the world, right? I can’t even begin to list the huge environmental problems in China, starting with their water supply and going through the more well known unreal levels of air pollution. This is a systemic problem that the Communists have no idea how to fix, long term…so they do what they always do, basically ignore it until it gets so big that they have to do something. So, the something they do is embark on huge mega projects that often do more harm than good, and cost the world. See 3 Gorges Dam for an example, or look at their plans to create a mega-pipeline to move (polluted) water from the south into the north. > [@](#): > > Having said that, what have I said about China that is untrue? They are a country that is going to do great things this century, and they are just beginning. Forty years ago the Chinese were more poor than Ethiopia. now they are the world’s #1 investor in renewable energy and they are doing things like building IT and cell phone infrastructure all across Africa, so Africans can experience the health/economic/social benefits of phones and internet. > > China is just getting started contributing to solving humanities biggest problems and obstacles in the 21st century, and stories like their orwellian system are very disappointing. I’m sorry, but I just don’t think than anyone looking at China without the rose colored glasses can say any of this above. China COULD do a lot of good, and certainly they will do some, but under the current regime China is a really, REALLY big bomb just waiting for the right trigger to explode in the worlds face. They are a huge contradiction…yes, they invest in renewable energy, since they have a huge need for energy of any kind they can get. On the other hand they build more and more very dirty coal fired plants and they produce more pollution than any other nation, more CO2 than any other nation, and the only reason it hasn’t continued to skyrocket lately is the huge slowdown in their economy. I think that they would be better off solving their own issues at this point than you counting on them to solve all the other ones in the world. The place to start is with what you seem to have an issue with, namely the ‘orwellian system’…which has it’s roots in the CCP. THAT is the anchor that’s holding China down and the wall they WILL hit one day. Will it be a soft landing or a crash? That’s what terrifies me, the not knowing which it will be while knowing it will be one of those or something in between. In the mean time, seriously, spend some time educating yourself on China…more than the gloss or propaganda but the meat of the country. That China Uncensored channel is a good place to start, IMHO…they guy is very snarky but he’s got a lot of good info on China and he’s got a huge number of videos on a wide variety of subjects, many that you are asking about in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/48 "2015-10-10T16:15:18Z")
[QUOTE=Kobal2] And I think you’re overestimating the powers of an autocracy. The CCP _have_ to “pay lip service” to it, as you say, because the people would revolt if their government directly attacked stuff that is fundamentally dear to them. I don’t really see how the One Child policy runs against the Confucianist framework though, care to elaborate ? [/QUOTE] It’s not autocracy…it’s a totalitarian system. And no, I don’t think I’m overestimating it’s impact on the fabric of China since they gained power. Confucianism emphasizes importance of the family and social harmony, which the one child policy in China has totally disrupted in multiple ways. It goes completely against Confucianisms main tenets, which is just one of the things that the CCP has done to break the connection to that marvelous 3000+ year history you were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/49 "2015-10-10T17:52:09Z")
XT-- What percent of Chinese people are subjected to the one child policy? 35%. That’s it. There are 22 ways to become except. Most Chinese people are not subject to it. And plenty of people can and do pay the fee to have additional children. Almost everyone I knew had brothers and sisters. It’s hardly a pervasive part of Chinese society. You need to find other ways to get your information on China than from YouTube channels. The stuff you are watching isn’t wrong, but it’s not the whole story and not really a good reflection of the average Chinese person’s life. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/50 "2015-10-10T19:36:14Z")
[QUOTE=even sven] 35%. That’s it. There are 22 ways to become except. Most Chinese people are not subject to it. And plenty of people can and do pay the fee to have additional children. Almost everyone I knew had brothers and sisters. [/QUOTE] If you were an ethnic minority, or in one of the autonomous regions (in theory) or if you were a rural peasant who first had a girl child you could get an exception. Now, in addition to that, if both parents are only children you can get an exception for one additional child. I suppose if you are part of the wealthy communist elite you could also get exceptions as well. Or, you could go around the system as some wealthy Chinese do, and come to the US or other countries to have your second child. BTW, 35% of Chinese is a larger population than the entire US. 😛 What part of China are you in btw? Hong Kong? Beijing? Just curious. > [@](#): > > It’s hardly a pervasive part of Chinese society. It has had a profound affect on Chinese society, and, wrt my point earlier, it’s pretty much against Confucianisms base tenets, which are oriented around the family. > [@](#): > > You need to find other ways to get your information on China than from YouTube channels. The stuff you are watching isn’t wrong, but it’s not the whole story and not really a good reflection of the average Chinese person’s life. Do you consider yourself an average Chinese person, and do you feel that your friends and associates are average Chinese? BTW, how are you posting on this web site? My sons partner says that last time he was in China it was being blocked. Again, just curious…you don’t have to answer this if you feel it might be an issue with the folks who block stuff. ☹ To your other point, I don’t get my information about China exclusively from one or even many YouTube videos. However, it seems to be pretty good from my own friends in China (who don’t live in China anymore, granted) wrt information, and it’s easier for some folks not familiar with China to get some small bites of information in less than 5 minute increments instead of having to slog through tons of cites and info. Also, I like the guy who does it…he’s got snark down to a science. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/51 "2015-10-10T19:53:54Z")
I spent two years, not too long ago, teaching in a third-tier university in a small industrial city in Sichuan Province, making a local salary. My students were primarily first-generation students from nearby rural villages. Many of their parents were migrant workers in the East. My friends and colleagues were small city nouveau middle class. My boss was a small-time political dissident and card carrying member of an alternative party- a move that cost him his career. There is a lot that I can’t speak to-- big city life, life in the prosperous East, etc. But I did spend two years basically talking to the most utterly ordinary Chinese people that you are likely to find. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/52 "2015-10-10T20:10:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Confucianism emphasizes importance of the family and social harmony, which the one child policy in China has totally disrupted in multiple ways. It goes completely against Confucianisms main tenets. I don’t really see that it is - it doesn’t disrupt familial ties (though it obviously limit the overall \*size \*of families) and as for social harmony I’d tend to believe that having a sustainable, feedable, manageable population is somewhat more conducive to harmony than trying to find out what to do with half-starving masses of pissed-off unemployed youngsters 😉 ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/53 "2015-10-10T21:04:00Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t really see that it is - it doesn’t disrupt familial ties (though it obviously limit the overall \*size \*of families) and as for social harmony I’d tend to believe that having a sustainable, feedable, manageable population is somewhat more conducive to harmony than trying to find out what to do with half-starving masses of pissed-off unemployed youngsters 😉 It _is_ a whole lot of people more likely to have “only-child” syndrome, though… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/54 "2015-10-10T23:58:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You need to find other ways to get your information on China than from YouTube channels. The stuff you are watching isn’t wrong, but it’s not the whole story and not really a good reflection of the average Chinese person’s life. You are hardly in a position to question another poster’s source of information, especially since your erroneous claim about hunger in China. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/55 "2015-10-11T02:40:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You are hardly in a position to question another poster’s source of information, especially since your erroneous claim about hunger in China. Uh huh. So YouTube videos are the best way to gain insight into the thoughts of ordinary Chinese people? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/56 "2015-10-11T03:13:54Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Are you, in fact, at all familiar with the history of China? God damn, that’s all we need to wish for, is internal unrest in China. Be careful of what you wish for. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > [China is using big data to tie the lifestyles and political views of their citizens to their credit scores](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-scary-concerns-chinas-credit-scores-are-raising/). I find this really offensive. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Frankly, this system kind of shows a weakening of control. It reminds me of when I texted a friend in China and he didn’t get it. It turns out his phone had been switched off for a week for sending an anti-government message. Yes, creepy and intrusive. But also…kind of piddling. James Fallows of the Atlantic magazine has discussed tyranny light. The idea is that you make low level dissent inconvenient: China has recognized that you don’t have to put the thumb screws on everyone to maintain social control. Sort of like the way Americans routinely sign over their privacy for basically diddly-squat. Jailing is expensive. Screwing around with credit scores or cell phone access is cheap. And the message gets across. If Chinese growth ever falters in a serious way, I have no idea how or whether tyranny light will hold up. > [@mhendo](#): > > Exactly what i came in to say. It’s an autocratic political system existing alongside a profit-driven economic system. It has many of the worst attributes of each: limited freedom of expression; suppression of political dissidents; a corrupt judicial system; business cronyism; and virtually non-existent wage laws and health and safety regulations. Some of the cronyism is at the local level (as I trust you are aware). The town owns the factory IIRC. And their are clunky state owned industries. WAGs call all of this “Capitalism with Chinese characteristics”, a riff on the CCP’s slogan, “Socialism with Chinese characteristics.” > [@](#): > > I’ve heard some commentators refer to China’s mix of political autocracy and global capitalist involvement as a “state capitalist” economy. That works too. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/57 "2015-10-11T03:34:52Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The idea is that you make low level dissent inconvenient: China has recognized that you don’t have to put the thumb screws on everyone to maintain social control. Sort of like the way Americans routinely sign over their privacy for basically diddly-squat. Jailing is expensive. Screwing around with credit scores or cell phone access is cheap. And the message gets across. I’be heard that they’ve beefed up the firewall, but I always thought the way it worked was genius. It’s annoying enough to keep the idle curious out, but easy enough to get around that anyone with a real desire to could. That provides an escape valve, while also giving them the feeling that they are getting away with something. One of my pass times was to poke the firewall. Navigate to a few bad news articles and your internet stops working for five minutes. Do it again, and you might be out for half an hour. I once got shut off for a full day for trying to view the Human Rights Report. The game would have lost its charm, however, if I were a Chinese citizen and faced worse consequences than being kicked out of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/58 "2015-10-11T03:58:00Z")
> [@XT](#): > > BTW, how are you posting on this web site? My sons partner says that last time he was in China it was being blocked. Again, just curious…you don’t have to answer this if you feel it might be an issue with the folks who block stuff. : China Telecom, not currently using a VPN. I guess the SDMB isn’t high on China’s radar. Neither are a lot of unpopular-to-Chinese sites. You really can’t get into trouble with the people who block stuff. They’ll just block stuff. If you search for the wrong terms on Baidu, then Baidu might be blocked for a few minutes. Black coated spooks don’t come knocking on the doors of common internet users, even those of us who obviously and openly use VPN’s (but as I said, not on the VPN right now). The Chinese government isn’t competent enough to be totalitarian. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/59 "2015-10-11T04:27:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Uh huh. So YouTube videos are the best way to gain insight into the thoughts of ordinary Chinese people? No, but neither are your little anecdotes. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964/60 "2015-10-11T08:36:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, but neither are your little anecdotes. Well then get your own anecdotes. I don’t really care where the information comes from. But XT is clearly interested in China, and continually paints a picture of ghost-city filled mad dictatorship on the brink of collapse with absolute control over the brainwashed and starving masses. Literally one step in to China will add a LOT of perspective to this view. It’s a huge, complicated, and yes legitimately troubled place. The critique videos aren’t wrong. But it’s kind of like learning everything you know about America by watching Michael Moore movies. There is just so much more to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-creates-orwellian-monitoring-system-to-tie-political-dissidence-to-credit-scores/733964.md?page=2)