# China? Poker? Boat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 1, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789 "2005-02-01T16:14:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/1 "2005-02-01T16:14:29Z")
OK, so in [What’s the origin of the “slow boat to China,”](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mslowboatchina.html) we read that Frank Loesser picked up the phrase from poker players. Where did they get it from? RR ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/2 "2005-02-01T16:36:42Z")
If we coulda figgered it out, we’dda put it in the Staff Report. Presumably, somebody came up with it and it was cute and caught on. Who or when, we were unable to find any resources that helped. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/3 "2005-02-01T17:58:20Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > If we coulda figgered it out, we’dda put it in the Staff Report. Presumably, somebody came up with it and it was cute and caught on. Who or when, we were unable to find any resources that helped. Isn’t “we needed a phrase that connotes the longest possible time to fleece a bad poker player and came up with this one” all the justification needed? Exactly what more could the OP ask for? A brain scan? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/4 "2005-02-01T19:06:32Z")
What’s unromantic about a poker table? ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/5 "2005-02-02T15:08:34Z")
Baizeans have certain expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/6 "2005-02-02T15:37:50Z")
In his book _Baa Baa Black Sheep_ Gregory ‘Pappy’ Boyington describes his trip to China. Boyington and others were on their way to form the American Volunteer Group (AVG), later known as ‘The Flying Tigers’. This was a secret mission, as the Japanese would not have been happy to learn that Americans were going to war against them. (Remember that this is before their attack on Pearl Harbor.) The trip was made on a slow freighter, and the men played a lot of poker. Boyington mentions literally being on a ‘slow boat to China’. (He also mentions a Swede who was losing hand after hand, and laughing about it. ‘I have to laugh,’ said the Swede. ‘If I didn’t laugh, I’d cry!’) I don’t remember when the AVG was formed. When was it? 1940? In any case, the phrase would seem to predate WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/7 "2005-02-02T19:46:11Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I don’t remember when the AVG was formed. When was it? 1940? [This site](http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/gunslinging/gunslinging.asp) says recruting for what would become the AVG began in April of '41. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/8 "2005-02-03T00:17:16Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > In his book _Baa Baa Black Sheep_ Gregory ‘Pappy’ Boyington describes his trip to China. \ The trip was made on a slow freighter, and the men played a lot of poker. Boyington mentions literally being on a ‘slow boat to China’. > > I don’t remember when the AVG was formed. When was it? 1940? In any case, the phrase would seem to predate WWII. Boyington wrote the book in 1958. It’s amazing what your memories are almost 30 years after the fact. NOT that this couldn’t be the source of the phrase. Just no contemporary cites earlier than what Dex and I found. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/9 "2005-02-03T03:38:43Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Boyington wrote the book in 1958. It’s amazing what your memories are almost 30 years after the fact. NOT that this couldn’t be the source of the phrase. Just no contemporary cites earlier than what Dex and I found. You’re right that Boyington could have heard the phrase after 1941 (thanks, **Lute Skywatcher** ). Assuming that he did use the phrase in 1941, then it would point to an earlier origin than that. That is, I’m not suggesting that Boyington made it up or anything; just that if he used the phrase it would have had to have been around long enough for him to have heard it. ---
**Author:** ![Josh\_dePlume](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Josh\_dePlume](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Josh_dePlume)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/10 "2005-02-07T01:31:12Z")
The report says that > [@](#): > > The phrase was popularized by the song “On a Slow Boat to China,” written by Frank Loesser (1910-1969), and was copyrighted in May 1948. According to my English parser, this claims that the phrase (not the song) was copyrighted in 1948. Is that just poor wording? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/11 "2005-02-07T13:46:33Z")
Yeah, that missed editorial catch. We’ll fix it, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-poker-boat/287789/12 "2005-02-16T15:09:22Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Isn’t “we needed a phrase that connotes the longest possible time to fleece a bad poker player and came up with this one” all the justification needed? Exactly what more could the OP ask for? A brain scan? Sheesh! Keep your shirt on, Harpo. I asked a civil question. For all I knew, there were speculations that the authors hadn’t seen fit to include in the article, or they were still working on that piece and hadn’t thought to mention it, or it had been included in the article and inadvertently dropped, or any of a number of other things. Dex answered my question. Maybe this will turn into another “whole nine yards” issue. RR