# China to support the Taliban? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2001, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012 "2001-10-07T23:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/1 "2001-10-07T23:55:40Z")
From [here](http://www.debka.com): > [@](#): > > They were sent in to fight alongside the ruling Taliban and Osama Bin Laden’s Al Qaeda. Their number is estimated roughly between 5000 and 15,000. Our sources report another three convoys are behind the first 3000, who crossed the frontier Friday, October 5. Anybody have any ideas on China’s motives? I have three: 1. China supports any operation against “US Hegemony and Imperialist Actions” (from some rhetoric out of a Chinese paper during the spy plane incident). They are taking USSR’s old cold-war role. 2. The troops they are sending are mainly Chinese muslim fundamentalists. They may be trying to get rid of them for their own security and get to blame the US for killing them. 3. The USS Kittyhawk and troops are being redeployed from their bases in Japan will therefore be out of range of Taiwan. Perhaps there is some political gain here to extending the war. Are these too cynical? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/2 "2001-10-07T23:58:30Z")
Oh, and I suppose you think this is just a Communist plot to – … wait a minute. China **is** Communist! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/3 "2001-10-08T00:10:52Z")
From the same site: > [@](#): > > **Putin gave the nod for US forces poised in Central Asia to jump into Afghanistan to be armed with tactical nuclear weapons, such as small neutron bombs, which emit strong radiation, nuclear mines, shells, and other nuclear ammunition suited to commando warfare in mountainous terrain.** Do you have a _reputable_ cite for that story? ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/4 "2001-10-08T00:51:06Z")
**Do you have a reputable cite for that story?** Well, that is one of the problems with newsites that claim they will print the stories others won’t. It’s not always easy to verify. However, I have noticed some very good and detailed reporting from them and more conventional newsites eventually report it too. Plus have been endorsed by USA today, if that means anything. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/5 "2001-10-08T00:54:02Z")
China entering Afghanistan on the side of the Taliban is such a major development that it can’t be believed unless the major news outlets are simultaneously reporting it. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/6 "2001-10-08T01:05:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Balduran \* > \*\*Plus have been endorsed by USA today, if that means anything. \*\* I can’t believe you didn’t put a smiley after this. ---
**Author:** ![RoboDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@RoboDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoboDude)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/7 "2001-10-08T01:08:53Z")
One would think China would have enough sense than to provide military assistance to the opponent of a very powerful country with whom it has very lucrative trade relations. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/8 "2001-10-08T01:15:16Z")
I’m in Hong Kong. If China had entered a war against the US, the newspapers here would have had it on their front page, and the airport would be jammed packed with Westerners leaving the country. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/9 "2001-10-08T02:36:10Z")
Dave Stewart: Maybe it’s a **secret** war. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/10 "2001-10-08T02:40:54Z")
I want to see a reputable cite. I have posted repeatedly in other threads that China has it’s own problems with militant Muslim extremists and terrorist attacks inside of China. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization is made up of Republic of Kazakhstan, the People’s Republic of China, the Kyrgyz Republic, the Russian Federation, the Republic of Tajikistan and the Republic of Uzbekistan. One of their main goals is to combat the spread of militant Islam in their respective countries and the region. Please see this link from the Russian Foreign Ministry [http://russia.shaps.hawaii.edu/fp/russia/shanghai5\_6202001.html](http://russia.shaps.hawaii.edu/fp/russia/shanghai5_6202001.html) Here is a quote: 8. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization assigns priority to regional security and exerts all the necessary efforts to ensure it. The participating states will pursue close interaction for the purpose of implementing the Shanghai Convention on Combating Terrorism, Separatism and Extremism including through the establishment of a regional anti-terrorist structure of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization located in the city of Bishkek. In addition, corresponding multilateral documents will be developed on cooperation in preventing illegal arms and narcotics trafficking, illegal migration and other types of criminal activities. Please see Bloomberg on how world leaders respond to air strikes against the Taliban. (Sorry the link doesn’t work, type in [http://www.bloomberg.com](http://www.bloomberg.com), click on the Bloomberg Special Report and then the story. Here is the quote: China urged the U.S. to target military strikes on ``specific objectives’’ and to avoid hurting innocent civilians, according to the Xinhua news agency. ``China hopes that peace resumes as soon as possible,’’ Xinhua cited an unidentified Foreign Ministry spokesman as saying. What would possibly motivate China to do something like support the Taliban and OBL? The Taliban provide training and support to militants trying to forment revolution in Xinjiang Province, islamic militants have conducted terrorists operations within China, including Beijing, remember WTO and the Olympics, China’s main trading partner is the US, ad naseum. This so-called report/analysis makes zero sense. If there was such a troop movement, spy satellites would have picked it up. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/11 "2001-10-08T02:48:48Z")
**Tracer** , as **China Guy** says, there can’t be a “secret war” - troop movements get noticed nowadays. The PLA recently completed a big military exercide in Xinjiang province. One of the Uighars (Muslim ethic group) out there commented to a reporter, accurately I think, that the reason for the exercise was to let the Uighars know that independence is not an option. Supporting a group who support an ethnic minority in China in their bid for independence just makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/12 "2001-10-08T03:03:42Z")
That debKA site looks a bit over-the-top to me. This may be a good example of the warning not to believe everything you read on the internet! ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/13 "2001-10-08T04:10:16Z")
One more skeptical vote here questioning the veracity of the link. They also say this: > [@](#): > > In the estimate of DEBKAfile’s experts, between 30 and 50 terror activists are organized in teams in the United States. They are all armed with detailed missions for implementation in major US cities on both coasts as soon as the US launches its offensive in Afghanistan. > > Logistical and command posts to run this second wave have been set up on three continents: Canada, in Toronto and Vancouver in Canada; Europe, in Hamburg, Vienna and the north Albanian Adriatic port of Shengjin, an important Albanian mafia center; and the Persian Gulf, in Dubai. > > These centers are operated by an estimated 900-1000 Al Qaeda activists. At their disposal in the US are a further 70-90 well-trained Islamic militants waiting for missions and orders to strike. > > An additional 150 terrorists are scattered round Canada, Europe, the Persian Gulf and the Far East, as a reserve force. They live quietly under false identities, with wives and families, usually locals who do not suspect that the head of he family is a terrorist and may disappear forever, if called to action. So they have this all figured out, huh? Maybe they should be talking to the FBI? 😃 And, er, this: > [@](#): > > On Sunday, September 23, Bush telephoned Russian president Vladimir Putin and spoke to him for 70 minutes. > The moment both men hung up, the world we live in had changed and the strategic situation in all its regions, including the Middle East, had shifted radically. > > The United States and Russia, two old foes who faced off against each other for half a century, became allies in a move that will influence history for the next 25 years. > > Both predominantly Christian countries joined in a military, economic and political alliance to defeat Muslim international terror. > > In one telephone call, Bush restored Moscow to the position of power it enjoyed between the 1950s and 1980s. _cough_ Pardon me if I then take their news that China is sending Chinese Muslim fighters to support the Taliban with a very large grain of salt. > [@](#): > > China Moves Forces into Afghanistan > 6 October: Before even the launching of the major US military offensive in Afghanistan, long Chinese convoys were carrying armed Chinese Muslim servicemen through northwest China into Afghanistan, according to DEBKAfile’s intelligence experts. (the first part of Balduran’s quote) ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/14 "2001-10-08T04:16:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dave Stewart \* > **Tracer, as China Guy says, there can’t be a “secret war” - troop movements get noticed nowadays.** **Dave** , when **tracer** posts one-liners like that, he’s generally being extremely sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/15 "2001-10-08T07:53:07Z")
Damnit there should be a sarcastic icon for those to slow to pick up on it. In the meantime, to nail the coffin shut on this thread, from the [CNN website](http://asia.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/10/08/attack.asia.reaction/index.html): > [@](#): > > China gave a cautious endorsement to the military strikes and hoped peace would be resumed “as soon as possible”. > > A foreign ministry spokesman said the Chinese government “opposes terrorism of any form and supports actions to combat terrorism” but has repeatedly said that any action should be taken according to U.N. resolutions. > > CNN’s Senior China Analyst Willy Lam reports that diplomatic sources in the Chinese capital said Beijing were also anxious that the forces of the U.S. and its allies leave the area as soon as the terrorist cells had been damaged and rooted out. ---
**Author:** ![Philosophocles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Philosophocles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philosophocles)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/16 "2001-10-08T09:05:43Z")
I highly doubt that China would form an alliance with the Taliban regime, given that they would like to keep the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. I don’t think the Chinese regime would want to incur the diplomatic nightmare that such an alliance would cause them, nor is there anything significant that China would stand to gain by such an alliance. I would surmise that the Chinese government’s primary concern is that the conflict doesn’t spill over into Chinese territory, which borders a tiny bit of eastern Afghanistan. Also, they would surely prefer that the conflict does not result in a lengthy and massive occupation of Afghanistan by U.S. military forces–though I don’t think that’s something the U.S. would want to do anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/17 "2001-10-08T12:38:01Z")
Alright, I get the point, none of you are free thinkers like me, you’re too hung up on “facts” and “evidence” and “corroboration”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/18 "2001-10-08T18:08:51Z")
\>\> you’re too hung up on “facts” and “evidence” and “corroboration”. _AND_ common sense. China is fighting on its own soil islamic terrorists supported by Bin Laden and they are now supporting Bin Laden in Afghanistan? The Chinese leaders must have got _really_ drunk at that party last night. Maybe they are now saying they would like to donate Taiwan to Japan and HongKong to Britain? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/19 "2001-10-09T14:33:15Z")
I will vouch for DEBKA being as reliable as any cutting edge news source out there. Often they are first with what turns out to be the best theory. Their bias tends toward Israel, but they wear it on their sleeve. No false “objectivity” as in the U.S. media. > [@](#): > > Chinese sources reveal that, immediately after the terrorist strikes in the United States on September 11, the Chinese intelligence service, MSS, handed in to the defense ministry in Beijing their estimation that the United States would go to war to overthrow the Taliban regime, for the sake of which it would sign a pact with Russia. The Chinese leadership viewed this eventuality as the most significant shift in the global balance since the 1962 Chinese-Russian feud, with dangerous implications for China’s world standing and its interests in Central and Southwest Asia. They decided it must be counteracted. I’ll take DEBKA over the Olympics argument or CNN, thanks. **Dave Stewart** , you think CNN “shuts the door” on anything? Really? Of course they are going to **say** they support us while covertly insinuating “Muslim” troops. Note, “Muslim,” another level of deniability. China when found out: “They chose to go, we did not order it.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012/20 "2001-10-09T17:30:50Z")
According to this Washington Post article (about Japanese communication with China re: Japan’s plan to send warships to help the US) [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28208-2001Oct8.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28208-2001Oct8.html) officially, the foreign ministry has been cautiously supportive of the strikes, but President Jiang, in private, was “delighted” by President Bush’s speech. I agree with the other posters. China doesn’t have much to gain by this, a lot to lose, and the Taliban has been a thorn in their side for a while, supporting Uyghar seperatists. I doubt it’s true. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-to-support-the-taliban/86012.md?page=2)