# China's/Asia's Homer, Shakespeare, Joyce? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 25, 2007, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283 "2007-06-25T04:10:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/1 "2007-06-25T04:10:35Z")
Inspired by [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=426162) thread, sorta. I’m familiar with the 5,000-year-old China and its remarkable accomplishments, as well as India’s, etc., but what of the literary, philosophical strides made by same (excepting that Mao shit) and others in Asia, is there a Homer, Shakespeare or even lately a James Joyce peer that we, of the western-centric education, have simply not heard of? Educate me! ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/2 "2007-06-25T04:19:56Z")
Well, according to the Encyclopaedia Britannica 1994 (the Macropaedia article “Shakespeare”) there is no author that can compare to William Shakespeare… there is categorically no Chinese Shakesphere, Indian Shakesphere, ect. This coming from the same publication that says no other culture has the equivilent of a Domesday Book. ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/3 "2007-06-25T04:25:16Z")
I’ve heard [The Romance of the Three Kingdoms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms) by Luó Guànzhōng referred to as China’s equivalent of Shakespearean work, although it’s so long (1000+ pages) that it is more akin to Homer’s epics. Interestingly, googling for [“China’s Shakespeare”](http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Isf&q=%22China%27s+shakespeare%22&btnG=Search) turns up all different results. Apparently, Guan Hanqing, Tang Xianzu, Qi-Xin He, and Cao Yu are all referred to as “China’s Shakespeare.” That must get confusing. To be fair, Tang Xianzu shows up many more times than the others do. Don’t know anything about him myself, though, so I’ll leave you with that name. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/4 "2007-06-25T04:35:10Z")
For 1,500 years, every educated Chinese would have read the Analects of [Confucius](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius). Another enormously influential Chinese writer was [Sun Tzu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-tzu), who wrote _The Art of War_. If [Sima Qian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssu-ma_Chien) was not China’s Shakespeare, he was its Gibbons, covering two thousand years of Chinese history. [Luo Guanzhong](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luo_Kuan-chung) was the author of two of the most revered epics in Chinese literature. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/5 "2007-06-25T04:39:32Z")
I haven’t read Joyce, but perhaps [Natsume Soseki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natsume_Soseki) comes close? ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/6 "2007-06-25T04:47:51Z")
[QUOTE=Kozmik] This coming from the same publication that says no other culture has the equivilent of a Domesday Book. [/QUOTE] Well, that is certainly leading. Can you provide details of other equivalents to the Domesdays? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/7 "2007-06-25T05:02:51Z")
I don’t know about China, but since you mention Asia in general, Rabindranath Tagore is an Indian writer who seems to be held in something like that same sort of esteem. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/8 "2007-06-25T05:53:16Z")
How about [Lao Tzu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi)? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/9 "2007-06-25T07:58:14Z")
[World Access: The Handbook for Citizens of the Earth](http://www.amazon.com/World-Access-Handbook-Citizens-Earth/dp/0684810166/ref=sr_1_1/104-1020450-1882354?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182757763&sr=8-1) (1996) by Kathryn Petras and Ross Petras has a section on Literature of the World. Under Great Books of the World, Golden Lotus (1590s, author unknown) is about, “The rise and fall of a man addicted to sex and women.” It was one of the first novels about contemporary social life. Lu Xun (1881-1936) is called the father of modern Chinese literature. Wang Wei, Li Po and Tu Fu are 3 medieval Chinese poets. I know nothing about these authors: I’m just relating what’s in that (recommended) reference book. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/10 "2007-06-25T15:13:44Z")
Here’s a quick list of significant Japanese works and authors: _Manyoshu_ This is a very large collection of short poems compiled in the 8th century CE although many are much older. It’s importance is unrivaled du to its age, length, depth and influence. It marked the beginning of the shift from a rich oral tradition to a written one. In that way, it bears some similarity to Homer. _Genji Monogatari_ The “Tale of Genji” might possibly the most famous work of literature written by a woman ever. This vast historical novel, finished in the 11th century, has had a profound influence on the development of Japanese art and writing. Shakespeare, in that it stands unequalled. _Makura no soshi_ This work, “The Pillow Book” by a contemporary of the author of “Tale of Genji” is one of the most unique works of literature. It reads somewhat like a diary, but it’s not quite a diary. There are narrative sections describing court life. There are poems. There are lists, which read like poems. _Shobogenzo_ This collection of essays by the 13th century Zen priest Dogen touches subjects as diverse as personal higiene and metaphysics. It was penned at a time when Japan replaced China as the major center of activity for the Zen school. One of its deeper essays, _Uji_ (“being time”) is very similar to Heidegger’s “Being and Time” – and precedes it by 700 years. _Ogura Hyakunin Isshu_ This is another poem compilation, though much shorter than the _Manyoshu_. These “100 poems by 100 poets” are often memorized and they’re even frequently featured in a sort of memory card game. _Oku no Hosomichi_ by Matsu Basho Basho is considered the greatest of haiku poets. _Oku no Hosomichi_ tells of the travel he made in remote regions of Japan. It is both a travel to the depths of the countryside and the depths of the soul. Natsume Soseki (1867-1916) Soseki, until recently was featured on the 1000 yen note. He’s widely recognized as one of the founders of modern Japanese literature. While _Wagahai wa neko dearu_ (“I Am a Cat”) is his most famous work (in which the narrator is indeed a cat), his later novels like _kokoro_ or _bocchan_ that are probably greater masterpieces. His non-fiction work and the social satire of his novels reads like it was written yesterday. Tanizaki Jun’ichiro (1886-1965) Another great 20th century author, he sought a form of novel that would be distinctly Japanese in nature. Yasunari Kawabata (1899-1972) Nobel prize winner and generally giant author. His novels, such as _Yukiguni_ (“Snow Country”) and _Yama no oto_ (“The Sound of the Mountain”) are beautifully poetic. Yukio Mishima (1925-1970) A giant of world literature, a complex man in the extreme. An imperialist who committed suicide after attempting a coup d’etat, he was also maverick talent who when approach through his work resists easy labeling. Haruki Murakami (1949-) I put in this contemporary author because he’s getting a lot of attention around the world lately. He’s certainly the biggest star right now in Japan’s literary world and some people are even talking about an eventual Nobel. There are many, many more of course but I have to go to bed. One thing that should probably be of note is that poetry is very important in eastern Asia. You can see that from the few works I chose, but the great classical Chinese poets had a _huge_ influence throughout Asia. However, poetry doesn’t translate well, if at all, which is probably why they never became quite as famous in the west. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/11 "2007-06-25T15:46:07Z")
Since this is primarily about literature, I’m moving it to Cafe Society. Coibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/12 "2007-06-25T16:03:09Z")
Have you ever read the works of Shan Yu? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/13 "2007-06-25T16:08:17Z")
I thought it was Li Bai. [Li Bai](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Bai) When I lived in China, he was the poet I most often heard talked about. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/14 "2007-06-26T00:09:19Z")
[QUOTE=Mahaloth] I thought it was Li Bai. [Li Bai](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Bai) When I lived in China, he was the poet I most often heard talked about. [/QUOTE] You shouldn’t forget his contemporary, Du Fu also. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinas-asias-homer-shakespeare-joyce/409283/15 "2007-06-26T02:27:48Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Have you ever read the works of Shan Yu? [/QUOTE] Nah, it’s probably written in the same bad Chinese as is spoken in the rest of the 'verse.