# Chinese drywall danger **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186 "2009-04-15T16:59:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/21 "2009-04-16T22:16:07Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I gotta be honest with ya. It never would have occurred to me in a million years that I would have to worry about even the cheapest of drywall becoming toxic after a few years. > Odesio I totally agree. No matter how cheap a product is supposed to be suitable for its intended use or purpose. And no matter how you slice it the consumer, whether it be a contractor or a homeowner are not equipped to test and should not be expected to test. One thing is a normal variation in quality among products which all comply and serve their purpose but it is another thing when a product does not meet the minimum requirements as is this case. There needs to be some regulation so that buyers can trust what they are buying. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/22 "2009-04-16T23:02:34Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I gotta be honest with ya. It never would have occurred to me in a million years that I would have to worry about even the cheapest of drywall becoming toxic after a few years. That’s because you didn’t have to worry about it. But now you do, along with everything else that comes from China. One thing I gotta credit the Chinese with, though, is that they didn’t give the melamine guy a slap on the wrist the way it would go here. Supposedly, they _hung_ the motherfucker. They probably hung a scapegoat, or didn’t really hang him and said they did, but at least it shows how seriously they took it. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/23 "2009-04-16T23:16:50Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > They’re not making gypsum from fly ash (in fact, too much fly ash contamination means you can’t use the gypsum any more), they’re making from forced oxidation of the limestone or lime + SO2 process, resulting in CaSO4 \* 2H2O. Why is SO2 devolving? That depends on whether the source is natural or human-generated. If it’s natural source I can’t tell you why; if human-generated then they’re not fully oxidizing the CaSO3 into CaSO4, which saves them a tiny amount of money by not running as many forced oxidation blowers or by not building/operating a good gypsum production plant. Pffft. That’s just what they WANT you to think! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/24 "2009-04-16T23:20:43Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > That’s because you didn’t have to worry about it. But now you do, along with everything else that comes from China. > > One thing I gotta credit the Chinese with, though, is that they didn’t give the melamine guy a slap on the wrist the way it would go here. Supposedly, they _hung_ the motherfucker. They probably hung a scapegoat, or didn’t really hang him and said they did, but at least it shows how seriously they took it. But it probably had more to do with the country losing face than worry about any dangers that resulted from his actions. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/25 "2009-04-16T23:34:38Z")
They risk the entire economic revolution when they do something stupid. China is growing fond of amassing great wealth and power. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/26 "2009-04-17T00:01:01Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > That’s because you didn’t have to worry about it. But now you do, along with everything else that comes from China. All this China-bashing at the least opportunity bothers me. China is a huge country with a huge manufacturing industry and they sell huge quantities of manufactured goods to America. Of course there are going to be some defective goods but trying to paint the Chinese as somehow specially bad or specially corrupt is totally unfair. This is like a man complaining his wife breaks dishes. You know who breaks the most dishes in a household? The person who does the dishes, that’s who. There have been plenty of recalls of American meat, American food, American drugs and other American things too but Americans make those to be isolated things while many will paint China with a broader brush. Yes, there is corruption in China. Now, who is going to tell me there is no corruption in America? America and China are both built on corruption or, to call it more mildly, influence trafficking. I have worked with Chinese factories and I have been impressed by the proffesionalism and quality of their engineers. And their eagerness to work. China is learning as it goes. They are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and doing a very good job of it and it is unfair to paint them as if they did not care. Of course there are corrupt people and ignorant people. Just like in America. America has taken many decades to build the know how which China is now acquiring. You cannot expect them to start out perfect. And, in the end, if America buys from China, it is America’s responsibility to check and do quality control. Just bashing the Chinese is stupid. If you have a machine which outputs defective product you make extra double care to check its output. China is no different. It is just a manufacturing process. If you think it gives bad quality and you still do not implement adequate controls that is your own fault. The fact is that China is doing the manufacturing because American workers will not do it for a rice which can come even close. But I am sure there is still American drywall for those who want it and are willing to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/27 "2009-04-17T01:00:52Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > All this China-bashing at the least opportunity bothers me. Yes, we should at least add some **GERMAN** bashing to the mix: > [@](#): > > Some of this imported drywall came from the German-based company, Knauf Plasterboard Tianjin Company Ltd. of China. > **[Aylstock, Witkin, Kreis & Overholtz Law Firm](https://www.awkolaw.com)** > > With 23 attorneys and over 200 staff, the national law firm of Aylstock, Witkin, Kreis & Overholtz, PLLC is committed to protecting the rights of consumers who are seriously injured by defective products, drugs and medical devices. From this website it looks like the UK could have troubles too: > **[UK Gypsum Plasterboard Manufacturer | Knauf UK&I](https://knauf.com/en-GB/knauf-gypsum)** > > Explore our products and systems, policies and certificates, latest news from Knauf Gypsum UK & Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/28 "2009-04-17T01:36:52Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > All this China-bashing at the least opportunity bothers me. > > China is a huge country with a huge manufacturing industry and they sell huge quantities of manufactured goods to America. Of course there are going to be some defective goods but trying to paint the Chinese as somehow specially bad or specially corrupt is totally unfair. > > This is like a man complaining his wife breaks dishes. You know who breaks the most dishes in a household? The person who does the dishes, that’s who. > > There have been plenty of recalls of American meat, American food, American drugs and other American things too but Americans make those to be isolated things while many will paint China with a broader brush. > > Yes, there is corruption in China. Now, who is going to tell me there is no corruption in America? America and China are both built on corruption or, to call it more mildly, influence trafficking. > > I have worked with Chinese factories and I have been impressed by the proffesionalism and quality of their engineers. And their eagerness to work. > > China is learning as it goes. They are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and doing a very good job of it and it is unfair to paint them as if they did not care. Of course there are corrupt people and ignorant people. Just like in America. > > America has taken many decades to build the know how which China is now acquiring. You cannot expect them to start out perfect. > > And, in the end, if America buys from China, it is America’s responsibility to check and do quality control. Just bashing the Chinese is stupid. > > If you have a machine which outputs defective product you make extra double care to check its output. China is no different. It is just a manufacturing process. If you think it gives bad quality and you still do not implement adequate controls that is your own fault. > > The fact is that China is doing the manufacturing because American workers will not do it for a rice which can come even close. But I am sure there is still American drywall for those who want it and are willing to pay for it. It is our responsibility to check? So we have to assume they will poison us. That is not much of a selling point. They allowed lead paint in toys . Then poisoned millions of cans of dog and cat food. We are doing a bad job aren’t we. We must save them from themselves. That is our job. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/29 "2009-04-17T01:57:39Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > The fact is that China is doing the manufacturing because American workers will not do it for a \*\*rice \*\*which can come even close. But I am sure there is still American drywall for those who want it and are willing to pay for it. Americans will never work for rice 🙂 That works on two levels if you imagine a chinese guy saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/30 "2009-04-17T15:09:48Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Yes, we should at least add some **GERMAN** bashing to the mix: OK, fine, with a little racism in the mix. Goddamned Kraut Chinks! ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/31 "2009-04-17T15:20:25Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > But it probably had more to do with the country losing face than worry about any dangers that resulted from his actions. Still, it’s a win. Hopefully they find the big shooter in this deal too and haul out the rolling gallows. I just hope they use American rope. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/32 "2009-04-17T15:27:19Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > All this China-bashing at the least opportunity bothers me. > > China is a huge country with a huge manufacturing industry and they sell huge quantities of manufactured goods to America. Of course there are going to be some defective goods but trying to paint the Chinese as somehow specially bad or specially corrupt is totally unfair. > > This is like a man complaining his wife breaks dishes. You know who breaks the most dishes in a household? The person who does the dishes, that’s who. > > There have been plenty of recalls of American meat, American food, American drugs and other American things too but Americans make those to be isolated things while many will paint China with a broader brush. > > Yes, there is corruption in China. Now, who is going to tell me there is no corruption in America? America and China are both built on corruption or, to call it more mildly, influence trafficking. > > I have worked with Chinese factories and I have been impressed by the proffesionalism and quality of their engineers. And their eagerness to work. > > China is learning as it goes. They are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and doing a very good job of it and it is unfair to paint them as if they did not care. Of course there are corrupt people and ignorant people. Just like in America. > > America has taken many decades to build the know how which China is now acquiring. You cannot expect them to start out perfect. > > And, in the end, if America buys from China, it is America’s responsibility to check and do quality control. Just bashing the Chinese is stupid. > > If you have a machine which outputs defective product you make extra double care to check its output. China is no different. It is just a manufacturing process. If you think it gives bad quality and you still do not implement adequate controls that is your own fault. > > The fact is that China is doing the manufacturing because American workers will not do it for a rice which can come even close. But I am sure there is still American drywall for those who want it and are willing to pay for it. Except American workers WOULD be making the things we needed, but for the tremendous need for profit at the expense of safety and quality. This is a lesson we learned post WWI and promptly forgot after WWII. Anytime you need a line of credit to make your payroll, you’re growing too fast and will fall harder and farther down than you rose. Unfortunately, to stay competitve, companies HAVE to shave every last cent off of the cost of manufacture in order to keep their creditors paid. Everything is connected, this drywall is connected to the pet food thing which is connected to home appliances which is connected to shoes which is connected to hanna montana lunchboxes. The more things we WANT, the more things that need making, the more things that need to be made, the more places that need to make them. These things HAVE to be cheap and they HAVE to be plentiful, ergo, they’re made in China. Were it not for them, the dollar store would not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/33 "2009-04-17T15:46:33Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > China is learning as it goes. They are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and doing a very good job of it and it is unfair to paint them as if they did not care. Of course there are corrupt people and ignorant people. Just like in America. > > America has taken many decades to build the know how which China is now acquiring. You cannot expect them to start out perfect. > > And, in the end, if America buys from China, it is America’s responsibility to check and do quality control. Yeah, I don’t know how many decades it took us to quit deliberately putting poison in the [milk](http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=812849) we feed to our children. This isn’t a quality control problem, or a lousy manufacturing process, this is about poisoning babies so that you can sell watered down milk. America wants to do business with China, but business relationships still require a certain amount of trust. How do you trust people who would do something like this? You hope the guy you’re doing business with is different, but you can’t know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/34 "2009-04-17T16:08:35Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yeah, I don’t know how many decades it took us to quit deliberately putting poison in the [milk](http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=812849) we feed to our children. January: [FDA: Peanut plant knew product was tainted with salmonella](http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/28/salmonella.outbreak/index.html) April: [FDA Hasn’t Intensified Inspections At Peanut Facilities, Despite Illness](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/02/AR2009040203728.html?hpid=sec-health) I guess this is peanuts rather than milk, still we may yet have a few lessons to learn about the role of greed in capitalism ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/35 "2009-04-17T18:29:03Z")
I worked for a company that built equipment for a Korean businesses. We knew they would remove every piece of safety equipment and back engineer to build their own. It was sad to think we could not compete, because their labor was cheap and expendable and our patents meant nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/36 "2009-04-17T18:38:22Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I guess this is peanuts rather than milk, still we may yet have a few lessons to learn about the role of greed in capitalism ourselves. Why don’t I go sit in the corner here, on that nice stool. Oh look, a pointy hat, and it fits perfect! ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/37 "2009-04-17T19:33:03Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > All this China-bashing at the least opportunity bothers me. > > China is a huge country with a huge manufacturing industry and they sell huge quantities of manufactured goods to America. Of course there are going to be some defective goods but trying to paint the Chinese as somehow specially bad or specially corrupt is totally unfair. > > This is like a man complaining his wife breaks dishes. You know who breaks the most dishes in a household? The person who does the dishes, that’s who. > > There have been plenty of recalls of American meat, American food, American drugs and other American things too but Americans make those to be isolated things while many will paint China with a broader brush. > > Yes, there is corruption in China. Now, who is going to tell me there is no corruption in America? America and China are both built on corruption or, to call it more mildly, influence trafficking. > > I have worked with Chinese factories and I have been impressed by the proffesionalism and quality of their engineers. And their eagerness to work. > > China is learning as it goes. They are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and doing a very good job of it and it is unfair to paint them as if they did not care. Of course there are corrupt people and ignorant people. Just like in America. > > America has taken many decades to build the know how which China is now acquiring. You cannot expect them to start out perfect. > > And, in the end, if America buys from China, it is America’s responsibility to check and do quality control. Just bashing the Chinese is stupid. > > If you have a machine which outputs defective product you make extra double care to check its output. China is no different. It is just a manufacturing process. If you think it gives bad quality and you still do not implement adequate controls that is your own fault. > > The fact is that China is doing the manufacturing because American workers will not do it for a rice which can come even close. But I am sure there is still American drywall for those who want it and are willing to pay for it. I am usually opposed to quoting peoples whole post but I think this may be an exception. I think this was perhaps the best post I have ever read on this or any board. Not for it’s brilliance or insight although it was both, but because it caused a paradigm shift in my own thinking. I have long felt like many posters in this thread and I did not like that in myself. This post shifted the way I thought and completely changed my mind on the issue. Thank you for that Sailor. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/38 "2009-04-17T19:41:04Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is our responsibility to check? So we have to assume they will poison us. That is not much of a selling point. They allowed lead paint in toys . Then poisoned millions of cans of dog and cat food. We are doing a bad job aren’t we. We must save them from themselves. That is our job. American companies are audited and inspected by government agencies, customers, etc. Is it that they are not to be trusted? Why would you trust a Chinese company and not an American one? Seems like they all need certain level of supervision and inspection. And in spite of all the auditing and inspection American companies have also managed some pretty serious things. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/39 "2009-04-17T19:42:08Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Americans will never work for rice 🙂 > > That works on two levels if you imagine a chinese guy saying it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186/40 "2009-04-17T19:51:08Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yeah, I don’t know how many decades it took us to quit deliberately putting poison in the [milk](http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=812849) we feed to our children. > > This isn’t a quality control problem, or a lousy manufacturing process, this is about poisoning babies so that you can sell watered down milk. > > America wants to do business with China, but business relationships still require a certain amount of trust. How do you trust people who would do something like this? You hope the guy you’re doing business with is different, but you can’t know for sure. Well, maybe American companies do not sell poisoned milk because they specialize in poisoned meat. Or just plain stealing people’s money without even giving anything in return. Or was Maddoff Chinese and I didn’t know? It just seems to me people anywhere and everywhere are greedy bastards who will cheat if they think they can get away with it and that China is just somewhat behind in implementing systems and controls to prevent that. The Chinese are no different than any other people in that regard. Or do you mean to tell me the people of America are all inherently honest and would not cheat if given a chance and there is no corruption in America? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-drywall-danger/493186.md?page=3)