# Chinese female Gymnast **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546 "2008-08-11T00:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/41 "2008-08-11T14:00:53Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Gymnastics is not so much about strength as flexibility and balance, particularly womens’ gymnastics. Obviously strength plays a role, but not as much as in most sports. [/QUOTE] Though I was impressed as hell with the vaults of the [33 year old German citizen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oksana_Chusovitina%22/) competing in Women’s Artistic Gymnastics. It’d be kick ass if she medals. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/42 "2008-08-11T14:27:44Z")
Y’all know the UK has a 14 year old diver taking part, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/43 "2008-08-11T14:41:28Z")
I think it’s crystal clear that these girls are underage, based on the NYT article. It defies belief that the national Chinese gymnastics authorities AND the national Chinese news media would have gotten their ages wrong prior to this, but now the national Chinese government has magically gotten their ages right, and – surprise! – they’re now two years older and eligible to compete. I think it’s contemptible, but I also agree with the U.S. and Olympic Federation in saying – what can you do? China says they’re old enough and produces passports to that effect; no one else can prove that’s NOT accurate. As the U.S. coach said, in effect: You have to assume people are playing fairly, and even if you suspect they aren’t, you have to just play fair yourself, because that’s all you can do. But I have no respect for the Chinese team and will completely dismiss any accomplishment they achieve, including medals, because I’m convinced they’re cheating. ETA re the British diver: Does diving have the same age restrictions? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/44 "2008-08-11T14:55:31Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] Y’all know the UK has a 14 year old diver taking part, don’t you? [/QUOTE] Diving has different rules from gymnastics. [14 is the minimum age.](http://www.usadiving.org/05redesign/events/2008_meet_%20forms/08%20SOG%20DIV%20ATH%20AMENDED%2010-03-07.pdf) (PDF) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/45 "2008-08-11T15:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=whiterabbit] And I’m not _old_ either! [/QUOTE] I’m 37! ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/46 "2008-08-11T15:22:09Z")
[QUOTE=suranyi] I agree that these gymnasts do not look 16. However, as an opposing anecdote: I have a 14-year-old niece who looks no older than eight. Maybe ten at the most. Yes, her parents have sent her to endocrinologists. So far, they haven’t found anything specific wrong with her, just that she’s a late bloomer. My point is that it is possible. Ed [/QUOTE] What we see by the time an athlete gets to the Olympics is part of a ruthless selection process. You don’t see female runners with wide hips because the ones who developed wide hips through their teens years all got selected out (could no longer win races-too much wasted energy as their hip bones rotate back and forth during the running stride-or something). The athletes who make it to the top are all more or less physically optimized for the event(s) they compete in. We thus should expect to see the same thing in gymnastics, hence the 4’ 10" pixie-ish body form wins out over those girls who were as dedicated to the sport just as much, but grew to be 5’ 10"-which doesn’t exclude China from blame if they are fudging the birth dates of course. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/47 "2008-08-11T15:24:33Z")
A Communist country cheating in the Olympics? There’s a first! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/48 "2008-08-11T15:55:28Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] A Communist country cheating in the Olympics? There’s a first! [/QUOTE] Thank goodness the democracies of the world have shining lights like Marion Jones to follow. ---
**Author:** ![Deftones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Deftones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deftones)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/49 "2008-08-11T16:11:39Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Thank goodness the democracies of the world have shining lights like Marion Jones to follow. [/QUOTE] Or Barry Bonds, or Lance Armstrong, or Mark Mcguire, or Tim Montgomery, or Kelli White, or.. Oh hell I might as well cut and paste the whole thing.. ] > [@](#): > > 2003 saw U.S. sprinter Kelli White stripped of her two gold medals from the World Track & Field Championships for testing positive for Modafinil, four-time U.S. 400 hurdles champ Sandra Glover, 2000 Olympian Eric Thomas, Olympic 4x400 meter Gold Medalist Calvin Harrison, hurdler Chris Phillips, and Olympic and World Champ 4x100 meter relay Gold medalist Chryste Gaines all tested positive for Modafinil, while 25-time U.S. middle distance national champion and two-time 1,500 meter World Champ silver medalist Regina Jacobs, 2003 U.S. national shot put champion Kevin Toth, hammer thrower John McEwan, and four members of the 2003 Super Bowl Oakland Raiders football team (Bill Romanowski, Dana Stubblefield, Chris Cooper, and Barret Robbins) all test positive for designer steroid THG. There’s many more than that who haven’t been caught. Cheating isn’t just a “commie” conspiracy. Unfortunately it’s widely practiced as anyone in the sport’s world knows. Using possibly underaged kids for gymnastics is really the tip of the iceberg. Unless someone comes out with conclusive proof and IOC busts China on it i’d say a lot of it is speculation rather than fact. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/50 "2008-08-11T16:17:42Z")
I am disappointed by the gymnastics this year. The Chinese look way too young, and that is important, because particularly in a country like China, children are not allowed to say “No” But, I am more disappointed in the American team. They are probably 16. However, whatever training and weightlifting they are doing has distorted their bodies to a disconcerting degree. As noted above, women’s gymnastics was traditionally about grace and athleticism. Now, it seems to be about lifting giant weights in order to land the best trick. I will be unable to root for this year’s “American female sensation” I forget her name, but she is about 5’, and muscled like a longshoreman. There’s another with a neck like a ham. I worry a lot about the toll on their bodies. I noticed quite a few injuries this year, much more than previous years. Could it be from overtraining a growing 16-year old body? Yuck, says I. Bring back the fluid motions on the beam and the goofy floor exercise dances. If I want rippling flesh, I’ll watch men’s gymnastics. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/51 "2008-08-11T16:19:01Z")
And - I hope that 33-year old German lady wins the whole damn thing… ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/52 "2008-08-11T16:21:36Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Thank goodness the democracies of the world have shining lights like Marion Jones to follow. [/QUOTE] I may be wrong, but my understanding is that Marion Jones acted on her own, not under the sanction of the USOC or the United States government. There is quite a difference between an individual Olympic athlete cheating and the host country of the Olympic Games perpatrating a massive fraud. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/53 "2008-08-11T16:23:18Z")
[QUOTE=Deftones] Or Barry Bonds, or Lance Armstrong, or Mark Mcguire, or Tim Montgomery, or Kelli White, or.. Oh hell I might as well cut and paste the whole thing.. ] There’s many more than that who haven’t been caught. Cheating isn’t just a “commie” conspiracy. Unfortunately it’s widely practiced as anyone in the sport’s world knows. Using possibly underaged kids for gymnastics is really the tip of the iceberg. Unless someone comes out with conclusive proof and IOC busts China on it i’d say a lot of it is speculation rather than fact. [/QUOTE] Why the hell did you throw Lance Armstrong in that list, Frenchy? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/54 "2008-08-11T16:59:42Z")
“Everybody knows” Lance Armstrong cheats. He has never been caught cheating, but “everybody knows” it. Because he can’t be that good without cheating. See? Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/55 "2008-08-11T17:34:38Z")
[QUOTE=Deftones] Or Barry Bonds, or Lance Armstrong, or Mark Mcguire, or Tim Montgomery, or Kelli White, or.. Oh hell I might as well cut and paste the whole thing.. ] There’s many more than that who haven’t been caught. Cheating isn’t just a “commie” conspiracy. Unfortunately it’s widely practiced as anyone in the sport’s world knows. Using possibly underaged kids for gymnastics is really the tip of the iceberg. Unless someone comes out with conclusive proof and IOC busts China on it i’d say a lot of it is speculation rather than fact. [/QUOTE] Take a look at the New York Times article. None of the people you mention have government documentation about their cleanness, they way these girls have passports attesting to their age. (And contradictory to previously published ages.) Western athletes also aren’t under the control of the government. In another article, the Times mentioned a Chinese athlete who wanted to quit - but if he did, the government would basically take away his parents’ apartment and would retaliate in other ways. Let me know if you think the Chinese government is ever going to grill these girls in public. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/56 "2008-08-11T18:44:33Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Let me know if you think the Chinese government is ever going to grill these girls in public. [/QUOTE] With a nice sweet and sour sauce? ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/57 "2008-08-11T18:50:34Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] “Everybody knows” Lance Armstrong cheats. He has never been caught cheating, but “everybody knows” it. Because he can’t be that good without cheating. See? Simple. [/QUOTE] Losing a testicle made him more aerodynamic. Damn cheater. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/58 "2008-08-11T19:06:26Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] With a nice sweet and sour sauce? [/QUOTE] Given the rest of this thread, I knew that was going to come out wrong. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/59 "2008-08-11T22:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=Deftones] There’s many more than that who haven’t been caught. Cheating isn’t just a “commie” conspiracy. [/QUOTE] And whatever happened to the old-fashioned concepts of honor, integrity and self-pride? They have been trampled under the hooves of “win at any cost”. That cost apparently includes your basic dignity as a human being. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546/60 "2008-08-11T23:51:45Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] And whatever happened to the old-fashioned concepts of honor, integrity and self-pride? They have been trampled under the hooves of “win at any cost”. That cost apparently includes your basic dignity as a human being. [/QUOTE] Old fashioned? They were cheating and scandals at the first Greek Olympics. This isn’t new. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-female-gymnast/459546.md?page=4)