# Chinese re: (1) the West & (2) Japan **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 28, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412 "2005-12-28T05:43:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/21 "2005-12-29T09:36:05Z")
> [@China Guy](#): > > I have never really noticed outright predjudice or hostility toward Japanese. I have Japanese friends and many clients that are Japanese. I’m sure it happens but generally the Chinese people may hate your country but don’t hold it against individuals. I’m interested in seeing how much anti-Japanese activity there is in Beijin in 2008. No doubt the government will do their best to prevent a repeat of the Asian Cup riot, but I’m not sure if they’ll be able to booing at the Japanese national anthem, etc. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/22 "2005-12-29T13:03:01Z")
> [@sharkattack](#): > > HazelNutCoffee…as always becareful of making statements like that. No one questions what atrocities were commited durng the war, but if you do your reading, there were many asians who supported Japan liberating them, including parts of inda. Yes, some countries learn about what Japan did during the war. But by saying that most of these residents hate Japan, isnt it like saying most of Europeans hate the Germans? Japanese movies, and music are very popular at the moment in East Asia, and the Japanese in general are very much looked upon with respect in regards to their products etc…at least that’s what Ive heard from my travels all throughout south east asia. I wasn’t aware India was considered to be East Asia, and I did say MOST, not ALL. Besides, the Germans mainly targeted Jews and those who helped them, while Japan targeted anyone not Japanese. Japanese culture may be popular, but that doesn’t mean they are loved unconditionally. Feelings of animosity are still strong. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/23 "2005-12-29T17:19:32Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > I can’t speak for ice cream consumption, but most East Asians are indeed lactose intolerant, somewhere between 80 and 95% compared to less than 20% for Europeans. Maybe there isn’t sufficent milk in ice cream to have an effect or perhaps it is treated with lactase to remove the problem. It takes more lactose than what is found in a typical serving of ice cream to cause significant digestive problems. Even a single glass of milk might not trigger much of a problem. It is not an allergy, just an inability to digest it that causes gas, maybe some looseness of bowels (the d word I cannot ever spell) and so on. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/24 "2005-12-29T18:42:45Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m fairly curious about the common wisdom that most East Asians are lactose intolerant. In both Japan and Korea, ice cream (presumably with lactose) is quite popular. Lactose intolerance is the “normal” condition for adult humans (and most adult mammals). The lactose tolerance mutation arose among the herding societies\* of the M.E. (spreading to Europe and central Asia) and Africa. It’s sort of a Euro-centric mindset to consider lactose intolerance to be unusual. \*this is an oversimplification of the theory, but I think you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/25 "2005-12-29T19:47:57Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > As to Japan and China hating each other. Japan (or at least the populace) doesn’t hate China–but from my trip to Hong Kong and mainland China, dislike for all things Japanese wasn’t hidden. Certainly the two area may be similar, but they’ve been two nearby civilizations for the last several thousand years, so I don’t think that’s saying much. You would need to be a bit more specific for me to comment further. My understanding of China and Japan is that it is similiar to other national rivalries across the globe. The closest comparison in my book would be the rivalry between England and France. Similiar cultures and close interaction between the two, but both competed fiercely for dominance over the last millenia. Studying Buddhism, monks travelled between China and Japan fairly regularly. Overall I would say Chinese culture influenced Japan more than vice versa. I imagine their relantionship will continue to follow the waves of history, much as the Anglo-Franco relations have done. (Aside - one reason I want to live to a ripe old age is to see what happens in 2066. My guess is that it will be similiar to the 500th anniversary of Columbus. Noted, but not celebrated.) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/26 "2005-12-29T19:59:41Z")
> [@Agnostic Pagan](#): > > (Aside - one reason I want to live to a ripe old age is to see what happens in 2066. My guess is that it will be similiar to the 500th anniversary of Columbus. Noted, but not celebrated.) If it’s anything like 1966, it won’t be worth hanging around for. I don’t recall much hooplah or hullaballoo then. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/27 "2005-12-29T20:26:50Z")
> [@sharkattack](#): > > One interesting point however is that whereas a high class meal in the U.S. may be a French meal…here it is Chinese. No, there are several choices. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/28 "2005-12-29T20:28:38Z")
> [@Agnostic Pagan](#): > > My understanding of China and Japan is that it is similiar to other national rivalries across the globe. The closest comparison in my book would be the rivalry between England and France. Similiar cultures and close interaction between the two, but both competed fiercely for dominance over the last millenia. Yes, I think this is accurate. Japan did some bad stuff that hasn’t been forgotten, then there is the typical love-hate relationship that goes with rivalry. After that, it really does get into nitty-gritty details. Generalizations are difficult. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/29 "2005-12-29T20:39:43Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > No, there are several choices. I would agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![sharkattack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@sharkattack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sharkattack)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/30 "2005-12-30T04:08:29Z")
> [@Agnostic Pagan](#): > > My understanding of China and Japan is that it is similiar to other national rivalries across the globe. The closest comparison in my book would be the rivalry between England and France. Similiar cultures and close interaction between the two, but both competed fiercely for dominance over the last millenia. > > Studying Buddhism, monks travelled between China and Japan fairly regularly. Overall I would say Chinese culture influenced Japan more than vice versa. > I imagine their relantionship will continue to follow the waves of history, much as the Anglo-Franco relations have done. > > (Aside - one reason I want to live to a ripe old age is to see what happens in 2066. My guess is that it will be similiar to the 500th anniversary of Columbus. Noted, but not celebrated.) Its difficult for some Japanese to see and to admit that China has played a very much influential part in their culture and heritage. Kanji, the foundation for the Japanese written language, for the most part came from China. And the Japanese themselves, are decendents of nomadic peoples coming from the mainland. So in effect, they are very close. Yes, agnostic pagan, you are very correct in that there is very much a love/hate relationship between the two. Like England and France, there has been several military conflicts over the years, I believe more so from the clans of China trying to invade Japan. It was only recently in the history of the two countries where Japan actually decided to invade its neighbor. Unfortunately, they did it in a very violent way. (Not justifying their actions, but I wonder how the Mongols would have treated the Japanese population if they had succeeded in their colonial occupation quests?)This being said however the eastern land of china was occupied and the chinese in that region have most likely a very negative view of the Japanese, and this is no doubt the cause for much animosity. The Japanese at that time however didnt see it in that way, it was their right to conquer and expand into those lands. If you speak to some older Japanese, they will be the first ones to tell you that that was their land, they conquered it, and it was taken away from them after the war. The parallels arent quite there, but I am wondering how forgiving Americans would be, if in our history, things had been very different. If the natives had actually colonized England. If the English were decendents of America. If the English language had actually orginated from America. And then at some point in time, the English actually invaded, occupied, raped and pillaged the entire easter part of the country for 20 years (Yes, I know we did do this to the Native American…I’m just picturing the American population as it stands today and using that as the analogy). It would be monumental if after only 50 years we began to even communicate with the British. We still hold a grudge with England over what happened 200 years ago, and it wasnt even our land to begin with. I think the forgiveness that China has shown and their current relationship with Japan is quite remarkable. Japan however has very much been the sole regional superpower over the last 100 years, and probably this love/hate relationship will only ripen as China begins to exert more power within the region. It is easy to think that as China grows economically and politically within Asia this rift will deepen, and it will not need the help of Japan and Japan will begin to decrease in importance. Japan however has excelled for a reason, it wasn’t just luck, and so China will most likely not overshadow Nihon, and in the future they will depend on each equally very much for education, commerce and enforcing stability in the region. I think the situation in North Korea has been a good catalyst for postiive diplomacy between Japan and China, both countries earning respect for each other…at the diplomatic level, and even at the average citizen level. And from where I am sitting, and definitely from where HazelNutCoffee is sitting, I am sure glad they are working from the same page. Over and out. SA ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/31 "2005-12-30T08:11:32Z")
What a string of excellent replies1 In answer to my own OP, I’ve recalled that the stongest anti-Japanese sentiment has come from the Chinese diaspora, Chinese friends of mine from HK, Singapore and Malaysia who will not purchase Japanese goods, for example. I suppose there memories of the Japanese are from a time when the Yen was not the invaluable capital it is today. Strongest anti-Japanese sentiment _from ethnic Chinese_ that is. My experience of Koreans, is of a stronger and official dim view of the Japanese. I believe Japanese cars are not permitted to be sold there and the commercial success of their various chaebols (Gov-Private enterprises) is measured against Japanese competitors. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/32 "2005-12-30T09:08:10Z")
> [@sharkattack](#): > > HazelNutCoffee…as always becareful of making statements like that. No one questions what atrocities were commited durng the war, but if you do your reading, there were many asians who supported Japan liberating them, including parts of inda. Yes, some countries learn about what Japan did during the war. Are you aware that Japanese history books tries to glorify what they did during World War II? That’s one of the reasons why many Chineses touched by the war because there has been a lot denying about it. > [@](#): > > But by saying that most of these residents hate Japan, isnt it like saying most of Europeans hate the Germans? Japanese movies, and music are very popular at the moment in East Asia, and the Japanese in general are very much looked upon with respect in regards to their products etc… In recent news, a Chinese actress get into hot water with mainland China because she wore a Japanese military uniform for a shoot. Sometimes back, another actress got booed by the Chinese because she wore a Japanese flag costume. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/33 "2005-12-30T09:13:18Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > What a string of excellent replies1 > > In answer to my own OP, I’ve recalled that the stongest anti-Japanese sentiment has come from the Chinese diaspora, Chinese friends of mine from HK, Singapore and Malaysia who will not purchase Japanese goods, for example. I suppose there memories of the Japanese are from a time when the Yen was not the invaluable capital it is today. I can safely say that not all Singaporean Chineses are anti-Japanese, at least the younger groups. Japanese animes, mangas, J-Pops and fashion are all in the rage here. Maybe the older generations might still bear a grudge. My grandfather was dismissive of all things Japanese, for example. > [@sharkattack](#): > > but if you do your reading, there were many asians who supported Japan liberating them, including parts of inda. Yes, some countries learn about what Japan did during the war Sorry, I missed out one point regarding “Asians supporting of liberation”, but can I have a cite? Is that from Japanese history textbooks? The “liberation” is only possible in first place because Imperial Japan at that time desires those land. I could tell you stories about the 3 years and 3 months occupation of Singapore and the various blood-chilling deeds they have commited here, and I can assure you, not many are supportive of “Japanese liberations”. ---
**Author:** ![sharkattack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@sharkattack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sharkattack)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/34 "2005-12-30T10:25:09Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > . > > Sorry, I missed out one point regarding “Asians supporting of liberation”, but can I have a cite? Is that from Japanese history textbooks? > > The “liberation” is only possible in first place because Imperial Japan at that time desires those land. I could tell you stories about the 3 years and 3 months occupation of Singapore and the various blood-chilling deeds they have commited here, and I can assure you, not many are supportive of “Japanese liberations”. Sorry EstraKun if in anyway you were offended by my statement. Being from Singapore you would know first hand from the stories of your parents etc. what occupation was like under Japanese rule. I will put together a list of cites for you to read if you give me a few days, but to get you started, begin reading the classic Rising Sun by John Toland I believe…written in the early 1970’s. There are many examples within that book of local citizens collaborating with the Japanese during occupation. Of course many (or most?)citizens were against occupation by the Japanese and some even by the western powers, but yes, there were some who supported it. Remember, the “empire” was huge and some countries within this region fared better than others under their western colonial leaders (or local leaders) and these are probably the countries who were less than pleased when the Japanese army rolled in. Japan set up puppet governments in many of its colonies, and these were run by supporters of the “liberation.” Much like what has been happening in Iraq (absolutely not to compare Saddam with the Europeans and the Americans!). Even in the Philippines, the land MacArthur called home, there were some people who were happy to be liberated from the Americans. Strangely enough, I lived in Guam for a few years, and I was good friends with an older chomorro gentleman who was around 12 during the Japanese occupation. Believe it or not, he had quite fond memories of the soldiers during that time. For him, it was not a negative experience (although for many Chomorros it was!) Now we know, through many, many documented accounts that most of the Japanese army brutally treated their subjects, through rape and murder, and it would be extremely insensitive of me to deny this, but my orginal point was, there were also many people who saw this as a chance out of oppression when the initial liberating wave washed over them. Misled or not, that was the case. Cites to come. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/35 "2005-12-30T11:26:24Z")
Please show cites, both before and after the Japanese occupation. I suspect you are confusing collaborators with the general population welcoming with open arms. One gets collaborators everywhere, as well as those like your Chamorro friend that was neutral. One can always find collaborators willing to sell out their compatriots. You’ll probably find that the general population throughout the Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was pretty negative on the Japanese after their experience. The one exception you don’t mention is n thowan. Taiwan was never a unified country (in those days) and only loosely controlled by the Manchu Qing Dynasty of China when it was taken over in 1896 (?). The Taiwanese generally had a very positive experience. On the other hand, many of the aboriginals/mountain people had a very negative experience. Also the mainland Chinese that came over circa 1949 also generally hold a negative view toward the Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/36 "2005-12-30T12:22:00Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > Are you aware that Japanese history books tries to glorify what they did during World War II? Have you read any? This idea certainly seems to have wide currency in East Asia, but in my opinion it is both inaccurate and outdated. The vast majority of Japanese history books do not glorify World War II. Even the extremely controversial New History Textbook (the one that helped sparked the demonstrations), the most conservative text in the country (used by less than half a percent of all schools, and only in private schools), is really not as bad as I thought it would be. It’s available to be read on their [website](http://www.tsukurukai.com/), btw. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/37 "2005-12-30T13:27:15Z")
> [@sharkattack](#): > > Japan set up puppet governments in many of its colonies, and these were run by supporters of the “liberation.” Much like what has been happening in Iraq (absolutely not to compare Saddam with the Europeans and the Americans!). No, but that ridiculous assertion you just made compares Americans with the military government of Japan during WWII. You can’t seriously believe that tripe, can you? ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/38 "2005-12-31T07:03:31Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Have you read any? This idea certainly seems to have wide currency in East Asia, but in my opinion it is both inaccurate and outdated. No, not really. I can’t read Japanese for one. And second, that was what I heard from the news and from local issues shows. (And before anyone say “Evils of state-sponsored media!”, I think Singapore would value a cordial relationship with Japan). One random cite from Google: [BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Textbook row stirs Japanese concern](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4439923.stm) ---
**Author:** ![sharkattack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@sharkattack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sharkattack)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/39 "2005-12-31T09:12:53Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, but that ridiculous assertion you just made compares Americans with the military government of Japan during WWII. You can’t seriously believe that tripe, can you? No. If you read it again, it is not comparing the Americans/Coalition of the Willing with the Japanese military govt. I was comparing the “puppet” governments that were put into places occupied by the Japanese, to the puppet government that was put in place (before elections) in Iraq. I was trying to draw on a modern comparison. Of course some people would argue that it wasn’t a puppet govt. placed in Iraq, but I am sure if you ask the average Iraqi he/she would say so. I just pulled the following off the Wikipedia site for you: > **[Puppet state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_government)** > > A puppet state, puppet régime or puppet government is a state that is de jure independent but de facto completely dependent upon an outside power and subject to its orders. Puppet states have nominal sovereignty, but a foreign power effectively exercises control through means such as financial interests, economic, or military support. > Puppet states are distinguished from allies, which choose their actions on their own or in accordance with treaties they voluntarily entered. Puppet states are ... The “War on Terrorism” In more recent times, the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and 2003 invasion of Iraq have led to largely U.S.-led regime change efforts in these two nations, fostering accusations among critics of the administration that the governments established under U.S. occupation, particularly the Iraqi Interim Government, were American puppet states. [1] [2] Setting up puppet govts., I believe, is a common practice, and sometimes a needed one. The Japanese did it. The Americans do it. That’s all I was trying to say. I think it is pretty obvious that the American military in no way has committed any of the atrocities in Iraq that the Japanese military committed during the WWII. Anyway, we could continue to debate the differences between the two, but probably on a different thread since this is not what sevestapol was looking for. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412/40 "2005-12-31T09:34:33Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Have you read any? This idea certainly seems to have wide currency in East Asia, but in my opinion it is both inaccurate and outdated. The vast majority of Japanese history books do not glorify World War II. Even the extremely controversial New History Textbook (the one that helped sparked the demonstrations), the most conservative text in the country (used by less than half a percent of all schools, and only in private schools), is really not as bad as I thought it would be. It’s available to be read on their [website](http://www.tsukurukai.com/), btw. Interesting reading and thanks for the link. That said, the New History Textbook does actually glorify World War II. Not as much as in the past or as certain bombastic politicians do, but “Indonesians Welcome Japanese Soldiers as Liberating Army” and “Japanese actions inspire the peoples of Asia.” Here’s another non-glorifying quote: The initial goal of Japan’s southward advance was to obtain resources, but it also served to spur on nascent independance movements in Asia." Now, there is a tiny bit in the glossed over history that isn’t so positive on Japan’s actions such as: China where “the casualties (both military and civilian) attributable to Japanese invasions was particularly high in China” Indonesia “But When war neared it’s end and food was scarce, Japanese military police sometimes forced locals to do harsh labor, and were cruel to local people in other ways as well.” Let’s not forget the Nanking incident on p. 49 [/Here is the entire textbook entry]: Japanese military officials thought Chinag Kai-shek would surrender if they captured Nanking, the Nationalist Capital; they occupied that city in December.\* But Chiang Kai-shek had moved his capital to the remote city of Chongqing. The conflict continued. \*Note: at this time, many Chinese soldiers and civilians were killed or wounded by Japanese troops (the Nanking Incident). documentary evidence has raised doubts about the actual number of victims claimed by the incident. The debate continues even today. [/end text book entry] China guy’s addendum: Known as the Rape of Nanking aka the Nanking Massacre every where else in the world is changed to “Nanking Incident.” “Incident” where at least tens of thousands of civilian refugees were killed and buried in mass graves. Mass rapes of civilians was also documented. The number of victims bandied about by the Chinese government & Iris Chang is likely to have been significantly inflated, but whether it was 50 thousand, 100 thousand or 300 thousand, it is still a horrific civilian massacre. You can go visit an actual excavation site of one mass grave at the Nanking memorial.). One more fun fact, the “remote city of Chongqing (Chungking) was the most bombed city in WW2” cckerberos - I agree that it’s “not as bad as I thought it would be.” I mean, it’s not outright fiction and owns up to several standard lies spouted by right wing politicians. That said, I think you should also acknowledge that the textbook is far from painting an accurate view of Japanese aggression. My own 2.5 years in Tokyo led me to believe that very few younger people in Japan had a clue about the role of Japan in Asia in the 1930’s-40’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chinese-re-1-the-west-2-japan/337412.md?page=3)