# Chiropractors-yea or nea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642 "2011-06-24T00:50:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/1 "2011-06-24T00:50:48Z")
Ok, I’m not sure if this should be here in great debates or in general questions, but I feel this is probably the appropriate locale, so here it goes… How many of the board members here believe in chiropractic practice? Do you visit a chiropractor regularly? I, for one, firmly believe it is nothing but psuedo-medicine and a complete scam. There is no peer-reviewed, credible scientific studies which validate it’s usefulness, and my personal experiences (in my younger years I was an avid believer) were that any problems that I might have been suffering would only get better once I STOPPED visiting the chiropractor. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/2 "2011-06-24T01:25:56Z")
Yes, I find a thrice-yearly visit to the nearby chiropractic college’s (reduced-price) clinic to be very valuable in keeping me flexible and pain-free. I have fairly serious low-back pain and about six years ago found myself virtually unable to walk. After a couple of weeks I finally overcame my skepticism due to a friend’s urging (and my regular physician’s hinting around), had a simple adjustment, and the next day felt so normal that I went shopping. For a couple of years I only went when things had gotten out of whack from hours of standing, but eventually decided it was useful to keep everything flexible. If I go three times a year I avoid the paperwork they make you fill out all over again if you haven’t been there in six months. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/3 "2011-06-24T01:30:26Z")
I’ll vote Nay. The original science is b.s. (subluxations) and the current methodology is dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/4 "2011-06-24T01:40:38Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I’ll vote Nay. The original science is b.s. (subluxations) and the current methodology is dangerous. Yes, one of my last experiences with one of these “doctors” left me in traction for a week. He f\*\*ked my neck and upper back up so back I could not even transfer from his table to my chair. And the kicker is he had absolutely no idea what he even did. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/5 "2011-06-24T01:42:17Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Ok, I’m not sure if this should be here in great debates or in general questions, but I feel this is probably the appropriate locale, so here it goes… Perhaps the BBQ pit? > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > How many of the board members here believe in chiropractic practice? Do you visit a chiropractor regularly? I, for one, firmly believe it is nothing but psuedo-medicine and a complete scam. There is no peer-reviewed, credible scientific studies which validate it’s usefulness, and my personal experiences (in my younger years I was an avid believer) were that any problems that I might have been suffering would only get better once I STOPPED visiting the chiropractor. All chiropractors are thieves and liars. An honest chiropractor is an impossibility, a logical contradiction. If they don’t believe in the theory, they are badly trained physical therapists (and liars), and if they do they are utterly crazy (and terribly dangerous). I have seen too many people, and a couple of friends, scammed out of too much money by chiropractic quacks. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/6 "2011-06-24T02:31:13Z")
Original science is bunk and modern practice is mostly bunk. I will say this though, at many of the trade schools where chiropractors are trained the curriculum is heavily intertwined with physical rehabilitation courses and there are a lot of people who float between both chiropractic programs and some form of rehabilitation training or exercise physiology training. I think that means there are probably some out there who are good at knowing certain exercises and etc that can help with back injuries in cases in which exercise and other activities can improve the injury. However the concept of manual manipulation of a patient’s body in a few sessions here and there doing anything is unsupported by science to my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/7 "2011-06-24T02:49:20Z")
I’ve had good results on 2 occasions, separated by years. You’d be suprised how much accepted westerm medicine doesn’t have peer-reviewed, double blind studies to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/8 "2011-06-24T02:52:30Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I’ve had good results on 2 occasions, separated by years. You’d be suprised how much accepted western medicine doesn’t have peer-reviewed, double blind studies to back it up. For example? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/9 "2011-06-24T03:05:57Z")
How many chiropractors does it take to change a light bulb? Just one. But it takes fifty visits. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/10 "2011-06-24T05:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > The most important characteristic about the new approach is that the evidence is scrutinized in standard ways, leading to more accountable and transparent clinical recommendations. > > Unfortunately much of current medical practice still uses the “it’s true if I say so” approach, so a lot of medical practice is not evidence-based by current standards. [http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/](http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/) > [@](#): > > The clinical bottomline is that antacid alone should be used as preferred treatment for dyspesia. The addition of lidocaine and donnatal can be \*\*used on doctor’s discretion \*\*in patients without contraindications to these agents. bolding mine > **[Towards evidence-based emergency medicine: best BETs from the Manchester...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17057145/)** > > A short-cut review was carried out to establish whether lidocaine is a useful adjuvant in the gastrointestinal cocktail of dyspepsia treatment. 325 citations were reviewed, of which two answered the three-part question. The clinical bottomline is... > [@](#): > > Some emergency care providers > question the widespread use of epinephrine over vasopressin, > saying it’s being used out of habit. According to > the AHA, no studies have shown that either epinephrine > or vasopressin improves rates of patient survival to discharge. [http://www.nursingcenter.com/\_PDF\_.aspx?an=00152193-200712000-00044](http://www.nursingcenter.com/_PDF_.aspx?an=00152193-200712000-00044) > [@](#): > > C Risk can not be ruled out- **Adequate, well-controlled human studies are lacking** , and animal studies have shown a risk to the fetus or are lacking as well. > There is a chance of fetal harm if the drug is administered during pregnancy; but the potential benefits may outweigh the potential risk. bolding mine > **[Abusing Prescription Drugs During Pregnancy](https://americanpregnancy.org/healthy-pregnancy/pregnancy-health-wellness/abusing-prescription-drugs-during-pregnancy/)** > > Abusing prescription drugs during pregnancy can be harmful to you and your baby. Learn how you can get help if you are abusing prescription drugs. > [@](#): > > Despite its widespread clinical use, the precise physiological responses to therapeutic cooling have not been fully elucidated, and effective evidence-based treatment protocols are yet to be established > **[The PRICE study (Protection Rest Ice Compression Elevation): design of a...](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2228299/)** > > Cryotherapy (the application of ice for therapeutic purposes) is one of the most common treatment modalities employed in the immediate management of acute soft tissue injury. Despite its widespread clinical use, the precise physiological responses... ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/11 "2011-06-24T06:23:39Z")
results for me vary by chiropractor. The one I go to now can greatly reduce my down time if I throw my back out. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/12 "2011-06-24T07:20:00Z")
They have been great for me over 30 odd years. I used to go regularly when I was playing tennis a lot, to reduce shoulder problems that I still have. Now I go once in a while if I have some kind of neck or lower back problem. I think I have probably been 3 times in the last 10 years. It’s very rare that anything needs multiple visits, I can only think of two occasions. Both times I was in serious discomfort and barely mobile. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/13 "2011-06-24T07:40:46Z")
On one hand, I have a cousin-by-marriage who is a chiropractor, and while I don’t know her well personally she seems to be sincere in believing that she is helping her patients. On the other hand, as a medical insurance person, I _hate_ chiropractors. We allow up to 16 treatments, total, over the course of an injury as pain relief - anything over that needs to be authorized by our medical staff after case review. Unfortunately chiros like to give 3-5 treatments a _week_, and will gladly continue doing so for years without asking for authorization first, sometimes racking up literally tens of thousands of dollars worth of invoices that we wind up denying. In sum: I don’t think they’re all scammers, but I think many of them are, and their idea of “appropriate treatment” is often fucking ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![SanguineSpider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SanguineSpider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanguineSpider)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/14 "2011-06-24T08:19:38Z")
I tried a four weeks worth of sessions (two times per week) and I couldn’t stand for about 10 minutes or so after attempting to get off the table (the doctor had to help me up and hold me). I have lower back issues and I dread going because I know it’ll take me time to stabilize myself after getting up into a standing position. What also makes me dread going is the fact that this guy has his tables out in the open, we’re not in a room where I can have privacy. I am very shy and it took a lot of talking myself into it to go in the first place. I really don’t enjoy having others see and hear my pain. He has me on my stomach at first and does compressions that make my back pop (which doesn’t hurt until he gets into the lower lumbar, iliac crest areas), then wants me to roll on my side to do more compressions, and then finally on my back to bring my legs up and then straighten them out as he pulls. Getting up from that position KILLS me, I can’t do it without his help and my back buckles on me. It’s not a wide table and I have a lot of trouble turning onto my side then onto my back. I know my muscles are very weak due to an injury from a couple years ago and am looking for OTHER ways to strengthen them instead of these chiro sessions. He did give me some"homework"… stretches to do at home and using an exercise ball. Those I have no problem doing and I can still stand after doing them. His attitude is of course that I “cannot” go without chiropractic help but I just dread going. My mother was very against my decision to do this, she had some horrible chiropractors who caused more harm then good. I am beginning to understand exactly what she means. I think I am going to attempt to get some physical therapy through insurance (if possible) and/or research some techniques to work those muscles on my own. Plus, getting rid of my evil futon will surely be a BIG help!! Do any Dopers have some tips, tricks, exercises they do for strengthening lower backs? I do not see myself going back to this chiropractor, I don’t want to end up in a worse state! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/15 "2011-06-24T12:20:40Z")
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a chiropractor. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/16 "2011-06-24T12:45:04Z")
Just finished a course of six treatments recommended by my GP for lower back pain. Net result: none - good or bad - except for my wallet being significantly lighter :dubious: To be fair, as I understand it, the limited number of controlled trials show chiropractic to be about a effective as other treatments for non-specific lower back pain - that is “Not Very”. As to claims relating to non-musculo-skeletal problems - no evidence at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/17 "2011-06-24T12:54:02Z")
> [@SanguineSpider](#): > > …I think I am going to attempt to get some physical therapy through insurance (if possible) and/or research some techniques to work those muscles on my own. Plus, getting rid of my evil futon will surely be a BIG help!! Do any Dopers have some tips, tricks, exercises they do for strengthening lower backs? I do not see myself going back to this chiropractor, I don’t want to end up in a worse state! Try to swing some physical therapy. The therapist can recommend some exercises you can do on your own. Chiropractors in general? A guy I knew had really severe back pains & went to a chiropractor repeatedly for many months. I saw him once during this period & he looked shockingly bad–gaunt & slightly jaundiced. (We weren’t extremely close so we didn’t discuss the situation in detail.) He finally got tired of the frequent, expensive & useless treatments so he went to an acupuncturist. (Yeah, he was an old hippie musician.) The acupuncturist examined him & said he needed to see a real doctor _immediately_. The diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. Earlier diagnosis might not have given him more time but at least he got serious pain relief for the time he had left. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/18 "2011-06-24T13:14:23Z")
As when this subject has come up on other occasions, here are my conclusions: There is reasonable evidence that some people will benefit from chiropractic manipulation for lower back pain/strain, assuming a proper medical workup has excluded potentially serious nontreatable causes. Various modalities including heat, massage, other physical therapy etc. have about as good an overall record in helping this usually self-limited condition. The problem with chiropractic is several-fold. It seems that only a minority of chiropractors confine their practices to musculoskeletal complaints, and instead attempt to use manipulation to treat all sorts of internal medical problems (including things like asthma, infant colic and so on) for which there is no good evidence (apart from perhaps one or more small, flawed pilot studies which chiros typically point to for support without bothering with large-scale trials). Some chiropractic techniques are not only poorly supported but can be actively dangerous (i.e. “neck cracking”, which in rare but devastating cases can cause serious neurological injury and permanent paralysis or death). Many chiros have gravitated into other woo fields, promoting various non-evidence based modalities and bogus nutritional supplements. Perhaps worst of all, many chiropractors actively disparage useful mainstream medical therapies and preventative medicine. A substantial percentage oppose vaccination, for instance. I don’t doubt that an experienced chiropractor who recognizes his limitations and confines his work to musculoskeletal complaints can help some patients. The profession as a whole does not get my respect. As this article notes, there is [a need for serious reform](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/chiropractic-a-brief-overview-part-ii/) in chiropractic. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/19 "2011-06-24T15:23:30Z")
I’ve been trying to figure this out myself. I pinched a nerve or something in my lower back about a month ago and it’s only slowly been getting better. Yesterday, we did this rock-wall-climbing team-building outing at work and that’s pretty much made everything worse – at least last night I felt like I was dying. This morning, I’m just sore … the usual sore that happens when a man who’s 45 and 15 to 20 pounds overweight pulls himself 30 feet up a rock-wall. I’ve had various people insisting that I need a chiropractor, but I’m leaning heavily toward the yoga joint down the street from my condo that offer’s $30 massages. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642/20 "2011-06-24T15:50:28Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > There is no peer-reviewed, credible scientific studies which validate it’s usefulness… Cite? Wiki gives an overview of chiropractic. [Chiropractic - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic#Evidential_basis) which includes a number of studies with comments on the quality of those studies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chiropractors-yea-or-nea/586642.md?page=2)