# Choir Voices **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974 "2011-05-24T02:37:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/1 "2011-05-24T02:37:38Z")
Is it true that an “alto” voice, when relating to a woman, is a low voice and when relating to a man it’s a high voice? If so, huh? ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/2 "2011-05-24T02:54:24Z")
Well, an alto is the lowest female voice part. As you’re aware, men have lower-pitched voices than women. If a man were to try and sing the alto line, it would be at the top of his range, thus, high. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/3 "2011-05-25T11:27:50Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > Well, an alto is the lowest female voice part. As you’re aware, men have lower-pitched voices than women. If a man were to try and sing the alto line, it would be at the top of his range, thus, high. True, but such a singer is called a countertenor. Technically alto is just a range. It covers approximately from the G below middle C to the E above the next C. That is low for a woman and high for a man. But neither is properly called an alto: the (full grown) male whose vocal range mostly fits in that range is a countertenor and the female is a contralto. And, yes, a countertenor is considered “high” and a contralto “low.” Also, a really low voiced woman is sometimes colloquially called a tenor if she sings parts written for a tenor. But a tenor is considere a high voiced male. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/4 "2011-05-25T12:01:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Technically alto is just a range. It covers approximately from the G below middle C to the E above the next C. That is low for a woman and high for a man. To further clarify for the OP in case they’re not musically educated: the definition deals with absolute frequencies, not relative ones. I.e. a range you can pick out on exactly the same keys of the piano keyboard each time, rather than the notes sung at different relative octaves (i.e. playing the same shapes on the keys, but played further up or further down the keyboard). > [@BigT](#): > > the (full grown) male whose vocal range mostly fits in that range is a countertenor I actually know someone who is a professional “male alto”, not a countertenor. I don’t know why he has this definition. He sings for an ancient cathedral choir, so it may just be an archaic designation. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/5 "2011-05-25T14:28:05Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I actually know someone who is a professional “male alto”, not a countertenor. I don’t know why he has this definition. He sings for an ancient cathedral choir, so it may just be an archaic designation. Because most choral arrangement church music is set as SATB (or treble-alto-tenor-bass in a boys’ and men’s choir). He’s stating that he’s a male who sings the alto part in four-part music. Child prodigy jazz musician Antonino LoTiempo, a countertenor professionally calling himself Nino Tempo, scored a pop hit on the song “Deep Purple” with his sister Carol (using the stage name April Stevens), a contralto, in which _she_ handled the lower harmonjy while \*he \*sang the melody at a higher range. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/6 "2011-05-25T14:52:22Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Because most choral arrangement church music is set as SATB (or treble-alto-tenor-bass in a boys’ and men’s choir). He’s stating that he’s a male who sings the alto part in four-part music. Conversely, a female friend of mine, who sings in an _a cappelia_ choir, sings with the tenor section, and is listed in their roster as a tenor. Her vocal range is such that she could sing any of the parts except bass, but the tenors are always the group which don’t have enough voices. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/7 "2011-05-25T16:27:59Z")
A little levity: What’s the difference between a contralto and a countertenor? The countertenor doesn’t have hair on his back. ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/8 "2011-05-25T18:38:43Z")
History and tradition are in behind a lot of confusion. In the Middle Ages laity did not sing in church, and only men could be in the choir. Parts were: base (=base), melody in the tenor (holding, or continuity), alto (=alte, high) and soprano (supra, above). Soprano sung by boy sopranos or castrati. Maybe “counter-tenor” came in when soprano and alto parts began to be thought of as female parts. I don’t know how the falseto/chest tone division fits into these parts. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/9 "2011-05-25T20:38:33Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Conversely, a female friend of mine, who sings in an _a cappelia_ choir, sings with the tenor section, and is listed in their roster as a tenor. Her vocal range is such that she could sing any of the parts except bass, but the tenors are always the group which don’t have enough voices. A group I perform with refer to these as “Tenor-ladies”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/10 "2011-05-26T12:34:28Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > To further clarify for the OP in case they’re not musically educated: the definition deals with absolute frequencies, not relative ones. I.e. a range you can pick out on exactly the same keys of the piano keyboard each time, rather than the notes sung at different relative octaves (i.e. playing the same shapes on the keys, but played further up or further down the keyboard).I actually know someone who is a professional “male alto”, not a countertenor. I don’t know why he has this definition. He sings for an ancient cathedral choir, so it may just be an archaic designation. Actually, I spoke a little too quickly. I forgot about younger singers and the castrati, and their influence. A male alto was traditionally a male who sang the alto part in the modal register (i.e. not falsetto). This often was either a child or castrato, a eunuch made before puberty so they can keep his voice. While there are no longer any true castrati, there are still a few male altos whose voices didn’t get lower. Far more common is a countertenor that has a natural falsetto blend that is so good that he sounds like a male alto, and thus such signers are often considered such. Also, countertenor just means “above tenor” and thus includes the sopranists, males who can sing the soprano part. I only know of two real male sopranos: [Michael Maniaci](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Maniaci) and [Radu Marian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radu_Marian). A quick look around wiki also lists a [Jorge Cano](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Cano). Incidentally, Maniaci is unique in that he did go through puberty, and thus is not a “natural castrato” like the other two. His voice just didn’t “break” or drop significantly. If you are interested, look for videos on YouTube of the three singers, and compare. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/11 "2011-05-26T12:40:32Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Because most choral arrangement church music is set as SATB (or treble-alto-tenor-bass in a boys’ and men’s choir). He’s stating that he’s a male who sings the alto part in four-part music. This makes sense, as the choir is all male and comprises boy sopranos and altos, and male tenor and bass. The guy I know is the alto soloist. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choir-voices/582974/12 "2011-05-26T14:54:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > [T]he (full grown) male whose vocal range mostly fits in that range is a countertenor and the female is a contralto. And, yes, a countertenor is considered “high” and a contralto “low.” This makes a little more sense if you think of “counter-” or “contra-” as a modifier that means something like “further from average”. Many low-range musical instruments have [contrabass](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrabass_(disambiguation)) versions, most notably the bassoon and the clarinet.