# Choose between 10,000 random people dying, or 100 innocents you choose. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097 "2011-07-06T21:36:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/41 "2011-07-07T19:14:41Z")
“Kill the first 100 infants you see.” Good enough? (I don’t know the names of 100 infants, and they’re probably not in the phone book either). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/42 "2011-07-07T19:14:55Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Can the first name I give him be “Odin?” You don’t think he’ll murder you out of hand for that bit of smartassey? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/43 "2011-07-07T19:16:58Z")
I was thinking about cancer patients, too, to put them out of their misery - I have a couple of friends whose parents are suffering, and I mean really suffering, from cancer and you can just see the quiet desperation in their eyes that wishes it would be resolved one way or another. But being skewered with Gungnir doesn’t really seem less painful…the OP did not say if Odin would kill the 100 people the same way, however. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/44 "2011-07-07T19:17:41Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > I’m scratching my head a little by the random // public figure thing. Sometimes public figures do get picked at random. They might not be in the phone book, but movie stars get called for jury duty and so forth. If I picked somebody totally at random and it happened to be what Odin determined to be a public figure, it’s still a no-go? I don’t have anybody in particular I want to off; [del]Kardashian[/del] I’m just asking. The public-figure thing is so the Mods don’t close the thread and smack people for wishing death on the likes of Nancy Grace. Also, from Odin’s POV, it serves to make your choice harder; you know a lot of people would just go to Wikipedia and choose Republican leaders, Democratic leaders, etc, or other famous types they dislike. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/45 "2011-07-07T19:26:01Z")
Can we kill and revive Nancy Grace 10,000 times? Note: she is not revived after the 10,000th kill, unless we can arrange it that she remembers being killed 10,000 times. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/46 "2011-07-07T19:33:57Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Now, this is just weird to me. I would think everyone would know people without whom the world would be a better place, even minor people. That doesn’t mean I would willingly kill them given the opportunity. Of course, this begins to get into a grey area that’s been discussed on this board a few times. If someone says ‘do Y or I kill X’ and I don’t do Y, am I culpable for X’s death? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/47 "2011-07-07T19:37:14Z")
Is the twist if you pick the list of 100 you end up on someone else’s 100 list? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/48 "2011-07-07T19:38:22Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > That doesn’t mean I would willingly kill them given the opportunity. > > Of course, this begins to get into a grey area that’s been discussed on this board a few times. If someone says ‘do Y or I kill X’ and I don’t do Y, am I culpable for X’s death? I wouldn’t be killing them. I wouldn’t willingly kill them myself, but a god is a different thing. I don’t even have to get my hands dirty. Mrs. Donlin, you are _so_ first on my list, you evil witch of a fight grade teacher, you. Of course you might already be dead. But if you don’t pick, you are culpable for 10,000 people. Oh, I know it’s like the train switch analogy - if you don’t do anything, you haven’t killed 10,000 people, just let them be killed. If you do, you have directly caused the deaths of 100 people. I say, if Odin is that hell-bent on destruction then it is rather incumbent on you to lessen the death toll, if you can, as well as pick people that are more deserving of it. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/49 "2011-07-07T19:41:04Z")
It depends…who is playing? Yes, go with the 100. Unfortunately the natural inclination to go with some “list of the evil/useless” is barred by the OP, but I’d have no problem going entirely random if imagination failed. Likely, given the chance, I’d browse local papers for murder/rape/drug dealing/domestic violence suspects. Not all guilty by any means, but better some criteria than none. For me the moral question would be whether to include the 3-5 people I know personally who fall into those categories. I’d like to, but that would change the killings from being a regrettable byproduct of saving 9,900 lives to an act of personal vengeance. ---
**Author:** ![2nd\_Law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f475e1/32.png) [@2nd\_Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2nd_Law)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/50 "2011-07-07T19:46:23Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Here’s the deal. When you and he are done talking, Odin will mount Sleipnir, speed over to the nearest sports arena with a game in progress, and start skewering people with Gungnir. He’ll keep this up until he’s killed 10,000 people. If he runs out out of victims he’ll just pop over to another public place; if he loses count he’ll just start over. No one – man, woman, dotard, newborn – will be spared. But that’s not to say you can’t hold down the death toll. All you have to do is specify 100 specific people for him to kill, and those are the ones he’ll off. For the most part Odin doesn’t care what criteria you use; it can be random names in the phone book as far as he cares. But since he wants this to be a genuinely hard choice, you may NOT choose persons already condemned to execution by a court of law, people already terminally ill; public figures are also off limits. > > What do you choose? Is it better to keep yourself free of the stain of guilt by not getting involved at all, or to reduce the death toll by 99% by bloodying your own (metaphorical) hands? Would it be permissible to tell him to go to the nearest arena, and, say, take the first 100 people in the skyboxes/box seats/bleachers? That way I reduce the death toll by 99%, and I’m not really picking out any individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/51 "2011-07-07T19:52:35Z")
I’m going to say kill the 10,000. Presumably this would be the more “boring” choice for Odin as he doesn’t get the satisfaction out of seeing me squirm over which people I have to kill. Hopefully, this would discourage him from playing stupid fuck head games in the future. Also, The Prime Directive. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/52 "2011-07-07T19:57:27Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I say, if Odin is that hell-bent on destruction then it is rather incumbent on you to lessen the death toll, if you can, as well as pick people that are more deserving of it. What I’m wrestling with is that it would be my reflex to deny incumbency or obligation. This asshole just showed up and thrust it on me; I don’t have to accept it. Of course, that’s just the general case. This specific situation makes it harder to deny the obligation. I might end up killing the 100, but I don’t think I could be as blase about it as everyone else is. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/53 "2011-07-07T22:04:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does anyone else find it interesting that nobody so far has included themselves on the List of 100? Post #16 **Czarcasm** … The only reason I didn’t make it more definite is that I thought it would sound all internet tough guy… when really what I was/am thinking is that after giving the All Father 99 names I’m pretty sure I’d be a wreck and would trade myself for #100 to a) avoid another name and b) because I’m not sure I could live with myself afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/54 "2011-07-07T22:09:36Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Missed one. Thanks **Moonlitherial**. > [@](#): > > People talk big but in reality every single name you choose does save 99 lives. > There is no doubt that the payment is the burden of knowing you have chosen 100 to die. Yes, assuming we’re not fighting **Skald’s** hypothetical then I cannot see an option other than choosing the hundred (it’s logical and pragmatic) but the burden… I wouldn’t be _me_ afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/55 "2011-07-07T23:35:14Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Post #16 **Czarcasm** … > > The only reason I didn’t make it more definite is that I thought it would sound all internet tough guy… when really what I was/am thinking is that after giving the All Father 99 names I’m pretty sure I’d be a wreck and would trade myself for #100 to a) avoid another name and b) because I’m not sure I could live with myself afterwards. God gad man, number 100 is Skald! Oh, shit. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/56 "2011-07-08T00:11:44Z")
10,000. Causing innocent death is always wrong. Of course, living with myself after that would be hell. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/57 "2011-07-08T01:34:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > God gad man, number 100 is Skald! Not unless I’m getting to name him twice. 😛 Because, honestly, if Odin Allfather turns up and says he’s chosen me as his scourge in some Skald’s-fingerprints-all-over-it hideous mind-game dilemma then who do you think is going to be #1? And while \*\*Skald \*\*may actually have been entirely innocent of having set Old Shifty One-eye on his murderous rampage I trust he’ll understand the degree of suspicion that would point in his direction. (Although I was also assuming that onlne handles weren’t sufficient to meet the OP). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/58 "2011-07-08T01:48:07Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Not unless I’m getting to name him twice. 😛 That might not be a Bad Idea, given the flaming/flying monkeys or ferrets or whatever the hell they are…Hell, maybe they are flying smurfs. That would explain a _lot_. ---
**Author:** ![Iridescent\_Orb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@Iridescent\_Orb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridescent_Orb)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/59 "2011-07-08T05:10:15Z")
This is a variant of the **Trolley Problem**. In brief, you see a trolley rolling down the tracks about to hit and kill five people. You can throw a switch which will divert it onto another set of tracks where it will hit and kill only one person. Differing moral viewpoints argue for minimizing deaths vs. non-involvement in any deaths. Wikipedia has a nice write-up on the topic. Or as nice as it can be when discussing running people over with a trolley…😉 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097/60 "2011-07-08T05:55:08Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > 10,000. Causing innocent death is always wrong. > Of course, living with myself after that would be hell. But you’re causing innocent death, whether you like it or not, by your inaction. Pick a hundred random names. I’d live fine with myself knowing I saved 9,900 people. This is not even close to a moral dilemma from my perspective. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-10-000-random-people-dying-or-100-innocents-you-choose/588097.md?page=4)