# Choose between a peaceful death that helps no one, or a heroic but agonizing expiration **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 15, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176 "2011-07-15T21:12:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/1 "2011-07-15T21:12:06Z")
Continuing my dark mood… The great goddess Athena, whom I am certainly not going to make fun of the way I would that sick bastard Odin, appears to you one day. Establishing her bona fides partly with an exercise of divine might, partly by unveiling as much of her celestial beauty as you can survive, but mostly through sweet reason, she tells you that she has some unfortunate news to share with you and a choice to offer. The news is simple; one week from today, you’re going to die. The choice is whether that death will be painless but ordinary, or heroic but agonizing. Here’s the details: First off, your imminent demise is not Athena’s doing. She likes you (you’re a Doper, after all), and if it were completely up to her you’d have a long & happy life. But though she’s long since deposed that piker Zeus from the Olympian throne, there are still forces she is subject to: namely the Fates. Though, as it turns out, the Moirae don’t manage the date & time of every single human’s death, they do make certain key choices, and yours is one of them. Atropos has cut your thread, and in one week, no matter what you do, you will keel over, dying so quickly you won’t notice till Charon asks for your fare. But the news isn’t all bad. Though not even the mightiest of the gods can save you from what is coming in a week, the converse is that nothing can kill you before then. No matter what jeopardy you put yourself in, seemingly random events will always conspire to protect you in the meantime. This puts you in the position of being able to do a particularly good deed on the date you’re scheduled to die. As it develops, certain acolytes of Athena’s hateful half-brother Ares are conspiring to attack a subway train with a poison gas bom, killing dozens of innocents. For reasons too long to go into here Athena cannot intervene directly, but she _can_ send a champion: namely you. Say the word and, 167 hours hence, she’ll transport you to the subway train so you attack the acolytes. You’ll be able to save everyone, but at the cost of inhaling so much of the gas that your last hour will be agony and death, a mercy. It is not possible to protect yourself from the pain of the gas. Athena is at pains to emphasize that your choice will not change what happens to you in the afterlife; all you can affect is what happens to the innocents on the train. You can spend the 6 days & 23 hours between now and then however you wish. What’s your choice, and why? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/2 "2011-07-15T21:22:55Z")
I voted with the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/3 "2011-07-15T21:25:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I voted with the majority. :: checks poll results :: You lie like an Etruscan. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/4 "2011-07-15T21:38:07Z")
You encourage people to violate the Prime Directive. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/5 "2011-07-15T21:42:11Z")
I’ll make the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/6 "2011-07-15T21:50:10Z")
Strongly suspect you know my choice already. _“…Valhalla, I am coming…”_ (Via the Elysian Fields, apparently, but definitely on my way) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/7 "2011-07-15T21:54:40Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Strongly suspect you know my choice already. > > _“…Valhalla, I am coming…”_ > (Via the Elysian Fields, apparently, but definitely on my way) Not necessarily. Athena has not said anything about the fate of your soul. And if Odin sees you interfering with mischief put in play by his spiritual cousin Ares, he may not let you into his halls. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/8 "2011-07-15T21:59:14Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Not necessarily. Athena has not said anything about the fate of your soul. And if Odin sees you interfering with mischief put in play by his spiritual cousin Ares, he may not let you into his halls. Then that Sonuvabitch better fill his hand when I get there. But I gotta think my buddy with the Hammer will put in a good word for me. Dying gloriously battling evil is a pretty strong resume. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/9 "2011-07-15T22:01:44Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Then that Sonuvabitch better fill his hand when I get there. But I gotta think my buddy with the Hammer will put in a good word for me. Dying gloriously battling evil is a pretty strong resume. Well, that’s kind of my point. Thor and Odin aren’t buddies, and though the former is a force for good, the latter is beneficient only relative to Loki and the Jotuns. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/10 "2011-07-15T22:05:40Z")
Can I save everyone and have nobody know I did it? _“How do you know the chosen ones? No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, … not for glory, not for fame. For one person, … in the dark … where no one will ever know … or see.”_ ``` -- Sebastian to Delenn & Sheridan in Babylon 5:"Comes the Inquisitor" ``` ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/11 "2011-07-15T22:14:51Z")
It’s highly likely I would forsake the innocents. Billions of people in the world, a few hundred die–who cares? If I save them today, something bad will happen to them tomorrow. I believe the vast majority of them would agree with me and forsake heroism. But who knows. I might wake up bored on the Big Day and lay an intricate trap for the bad guys. Just don’t bank on it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/12 "2011-07-15T22:20:25Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Can I save everyone and have nobody know I did it? > > _“How do you know the chosen ones? No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, .. not for glory, not for fame. For one person, .. in the dark .. where no one will ever know .. or see.”_ > > – Sebastian to Delenn & Sheridan in Babylon 5:“Comes the Inquisitor” You’ll be dead either way. What do you care? Seems silly to me to fret about who knows or not. ---
**Author:** ![Al\_Bundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@Al\_Bundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al_Bundy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/13 "2011-07-15T22:20:45Z")
I’m going to save myself the pain. And you did not have to use vulgarity to add this option. Since there is no change in my afterlife and presumably no change for the innocents as well, let them move on now and be happy. The pain will quickly be forgotten. PS. In the real world if I go in my sleep or running down the street from the abdominal aneurism, I’m OK with it. I’ll have associates on either side. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/14 "2011-07-15T22:25:39Z")
> [@Al\_Bundy](#): > > I’m going to save myself the pain. And you did not have to use vulgarity to add this option. You don’t know that. For all you know, Farfignoogen, patron of cussing, is standing behind me with a knife. > [@](#): > > Since there is no change in my afterlife and presumably no change for the innocents as well, let them move on now and be happy. The pain will quickly be forgotten. I don’t think you can conclude that there is no change for the innocents’ afterlife. Athena said no such thing. And, by your reasoning, every ER doctor might as well hang it up, since everybody dies in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/15 "2011-07-15T22:27:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And, by your reasoning, every ER doctor might as well hang it up, since everybody dies in the long run. That’s bait for a whole 'nother thread! ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/16 "2011-07-15T22:37:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You’ll be dead either way. What do you care? > > Seems silly to me to fret about who knows or not. I was going to say the opposite: I’d choose saving the innocents and dying in pain, because, hey, I’m going to die anyway and it’s better if others don’t also suffer a premature death, but also, if I’m going to leave my daughter an orphan it’d be SO much better if I died in a cool way - it’d make my death have meaning. Also, she’d get more financial support from my life insurance and the govt death payouts. And everyone’d remember me as the woman who died saving all those people, not the woman who choked on a pretzel or whatever. I’d be dead, but my memory would live on for much longer. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/17 "2011-07-15T22:38:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You’ll be dead either way. What do you care? > > Seems silly to me to fret about who knows or not. Bad Guys are still going down, “for I am [Winterborn](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVNjx4k8mWk).” **Oak** , the first round’s on me. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/18 "2011-07-16T00:34:36Z")
I’d do it. Wouldn’t think twice. I’d pack a LOT of living into the next 6 days, tho 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CoffinMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@CoffinMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoffinMan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/19 "2011-07-16T00:53:28Z")
If I am going to die anyways, I’d rather have it mean something than have it mean nothing at all. Pain is temporary - cowardice, like death, is forever. ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176/20 "2011-07-16T01:01:20Z")
You have to die, might as well do some good on the way out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/choose-between-a-peaceful-death-that-helps-no-one-or-a-heroic-but-agonizing-expiration/589176.md?page=2)