# Chris Rock: A good starting point for race discussion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864 "2011-02-18T23:12:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/21 "2011-02-19T21:48:29Z")
A lot of people are uncomfortable with it because they’re worried other people will think they are racist. Are “we” so afraid of that? Eh. Some people are and some aren’t. I’ve never heard of anyone being called a racist for saying ‘oh, you’re looking for John? He’s the black gentleman wearing a white shirt, and his cubicle is on the left side of the room just past the coffee machine.’ ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/22 "2011-02-19T22:18:22Z")
For those who haven’t seen it: Exerpt from [The Office Diversity Day](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb-meG47XWM&feature=related) episode- Chris Rock routine relevant part begins at 1:50. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/23 "2011-02-19T22:29:43Z")
As a black person, it doesn’t bother me when people refer to a person’s race even if it isn’t entirely pertinent to the story. However, if the character in your “story” is the bad guy and you mention his or her race, I might feel differently. If you get a car accident or have a rude encounter with the cashier at K-Mart, what does it matter that the person was black/white/Asian/Hispanic? I once hit a parked car. Instead of stopping the 15-passenger van I was driving, thus preventing the flow of traffic, I swung around the block and parked it in the parking deck and ran as fast as I could back to the scene. When I returned, someone had left a note on the windshield saying a “An African American woman driving a van just hit your car.” I let out a laugh, but it kind of pissed me off. Just what was the owner of the car supposed to do with that bit of knowledge? Go to the police with the note so that they could put out a APB on a generic black woman driving a van (minivan? conversion van? 15-passenger van emblazened with the school’s name?) Without the plate number or at least a description of the vehicle, the note and the mentioning of my race were both pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/24 "2011-02-19T22:38:41Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > As a black person, it doesn’t bother me when people refer to a person’s race even if it isn’t entirely pertinent to the story. However, if the character in your “story” is the bad guy and you mention his or her race, I might feel differently. If you get a car accident or have a rude encounter with the cashier at K-Mart, what does it matter that the person was black/white/Asian/Hispanic? Kind of the way I feel when I see Jeffrey Dahmer referred to as a [“homosexual cannibal”](http://www.mugshots.org/criminals/jeffrey-dahmer.html), probably. Yeah… if he’d only been one or the other we could have handled it, but it was the combination of the two that sent him to prison. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/25 "2011-02-19T23:15:22Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I can see not wanting to point out that he was bald because some people are sensitive to that, but we are so scared to mention race that she wouldn’t say that he is the “tall black man” even though that was certainly the best description. What is negative about mentioning a person’s race in a neutral context? **Mike Goldberg:** Forrest Griffin in the red trunks. Quinton “Rampage” Jackson in the black trunks.\* **Joe Rogan:** Why don’t they ever just say Quinton is the black guy? \*Wasn’t Quinton/Griffin where he pointed this out, but I couldn’t remember exactly who was fighting at the time. It was probably some undercard. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/26 "2011-02-19T23:50:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > As a black person, it doesn’t bother me when people refer to a person’s race even if it isn’t entirely pertinent to the story. However, if the character in your “story” is the bad guy and you mention his or her race, I might feel differently. If you get a car accident or have a rude encounter with the cashier at K-Mart, what does it matter that the person was black/white/Asian/Hispanic? A small anecdote, if I may. When my son was in 1st grade, he came home one day and told us all about his best friend Jeremy. My wife at the time was a teacher’s aid, but couldn’t remember who Jeremy was. When she asked, my son said: “You know: he wears a purple shirt.” This was of no help, of course. On her next day in class, she asked the teacher to point out Jeremy to her. He was the only black child in the room. Too sad that that sort of innocence is gone so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/27 "2011-02-20T04:22:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’ve noticed that there are a lot of people, most if not all white, who often use Chris Rock’s stand-up routines as a jumping-off point for “race” discussions. I always wonder why they don’t cite, say, Ellis Cose or Cornell West or another academic. Someone who makes a living discussing “race matters”. The only hypothesis that I can come up with is that Chris Rock makes talking about race comfortable for a certain segment of society…a segment who doesn’t really want a serious discussion. His routines make them feel less guilty about their own bigotry or prejudices. Sorta like, “See, even Chris Rock thinks black people are niggers. So it’s alright for me to think that too!” White people don’t cite Ellis Cose or Cornell West simply because they never heard of them. More people know about Chris Rock. That’s why he’s talked about more. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/28 "2011-02-20T04:51:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > When she asked, my son said: “You know: he wears a purple shirt.” This was of no help, of course. On her next day in class, she asked the teacher to point out Jeremy to her. He was the only black child in the room. Too sad that that sort of innocence is gone so quickly. I don’t think “that sort of innocence” exists at all, or has ever existed. Kids can be goddamn mean, sadistic, prejudiced little bastards, and this is a straight up fact of life. ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/29 "2011-02-20T13:22:41Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Fireworks is right. > > And no, a comedian’s comedy routine is never a good place to start a discussion about anything but comedy. It’s sometimes OK to drop a comment in referring to it, but not as a serious point to consider in a serious discussion. haha, you must one of the most uptight persons I have ever seen. Relax those sphincter muscles buddy… ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/30 "2011-02-20T14:10:23Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > For those who haven’t seen it: > > Exerpt from [The Office Diversity Day](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb-meG47XWM&feature=related) episode- Chris Rock routine relevant part begins at 1:50. That was actually funnier than when Chris Rock did it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/31 "2011-02-20T14:42:44Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > haha, you must one of the most uptight persons I have ever seen. Relax those sphincter muscles buddy… Please don’t make personal comments about other posters in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/32 "2011-02-20T22:50:19Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > White people don’t cite Ellis Cose or Cornell West simply because they never heard of them. > > More people know about Chris Rock. That’s why he’s talked about more. Also, Cornell West is kind of a doofus. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/33 "2011-02-20T23:44:26Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I don’t think “that sort of innocence” exists at all, or has ever existed. Kids can be goddamn mean, sadistic, prejudiced little bastards, and this is a straight up fact of life. Yes, but they don’t necessarily arrive that way. Hatred is taught, whether by parents or other kids. He just hadn’t been told yet that he was supposed to hate people of color. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/34 "2011-02-21T00:11:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Also, Cornell West is kind of a doofus. Which doofosity at least gives him name recognition, unlike Ellis Cose whom I’ve never heard of. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/35 "2011-02-21T00:24:38Z")
Turns out, Cose writes stuff on dead trees that get ground up and pressed into sheets. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/36 "2011-02-21T01:16:21Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > White people don’t cite Ellis Cose or Cornell West simply because they never heard of them. I’d wager a good percentage of black people outside of academia haven’t either. More people of all colors would probably recognize Cornell West from _The Matrix_ sequel than from all of his scholarly/academic writings and lectures and talk show appearances combined, and for me I’ll admit that Ellis Cose is a name I know but would have to google for exactly who he is/what he’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/37 "2011-02-21T01:17:44Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > That was actually funnier than when Chris Rock did it. Forgot to mention earlier: that was _The Daily Show’s_ Senior Black Correspondent Larry Wilmore as the speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/38 "2011-02-21T03:30:11Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > I don’t think “that sort of innocence” exists at all, or has ever existed. Kids can be goddamn mean, sadistic, prejudiced little bastards, and this is a straight up fact of life. The fact that young children don’t automatically identify people by race-based physical differences to the extent that adults do doesn’t mean that children are sinless little angels. It just means that they haven’t yet been conditioned to weight characteristics like skin color so much more heavily than other aspects of appearance in determining what somebody looks like. For kids, being the only kid in the room with dark skin is really not automatically more distinctive or noticeable than being the only kid in the room with a purple shirt. (That’s not to say that children are oblivious to racial differences in appearance or can’t detect them, just that they don’t automatically prioritize them in describing people.) ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/39 "2011-02-21T04:07:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Remember when Dave Chappelle dropped off the face of the earth? The explanation he gave made perfect sense to me, but received a lot of criticism from the “masses” (read, white folks). From what I gathered, he was concerned about the effects his brand of racially self-deprecating humor was having on his audience. It was intention to exploit and make fun of racial stereotypes, but it seemed to him that he was perpetuating them…entrenching them rather than bucking them. Even though I liked the Dave Chappelle show, I could see his point and had no problem with him bailing out. I don’t think a lot of his white fans really understood his point-of-view. They just thought he went bonkers. Anecdotally, I think otherwise. In fact, my respect for him doubled after that. I do however realize what you are referring to – something similar happened when Prince refused to be Prince. No one really took time to look into the details and intrinsic lack of fair and just dealings - the event was only good for late night talk show jokes. I have a different theory and it has to do with those who are creating the market of “socially irresponsible” comedy in which – I think – they presume about the target audience preferences – which is white. And it’s not just comedy, it’s pop music, most notably hip hop. I personally refuse to participate in that market but most people do, mostly because they think that if it’s on TV, it’s allowed. And nowadays, image is everything. On top of that, Chappelle is a bad example - he is black and a Muslim. Just like Malcolm X. Who, I think, pretty eloquently described what happens to people whose history is destroyed - someone else gets to write your future. Think about it, one of the most influential persons – not just black American but in the World – who lived in last century and if you take his, or book about him, from library you get tagged. I just think that there are two black American solitudes - one in the market created for white American consumption and another, independent, unknown, self-sufficient and, I think, happier. What is being discussed here is a typical white consumer perception but the stress is not on “white” but the “consumer”. But, I digress… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864/40 "2011-02-21T12:41:41Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Forgot to mention earlier: that was _The Daily Show’s_ Senior Black Correspondent Larry Wilmore as the speaker. Frankly I think Rock and Wilmore say a lot more sensible things about race, wrapped up in comedy, than Cornell West and his academic ilk ever seem to (in much the same way that Jon Stewart and TDS crew say more sensible things about politics and the media than the “serious” media do). West is an occasional guest on Bill Maher’s show and he just babbles and chortles and calls everyone “brother”. Hopefully he’s more on-point in other venues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chris-rock-a-good-starting-point-for-race-discussion/571864.md?page=3)