# Christ eating a pickle in restored "Last Supper" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** arts-crafts\ **Created:** [January 17, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746 "2021-01-17T17:57:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/41 "2021-01-18T19:17:47Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > A pickle. We’re not speaking euphemistically, are we? > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > The thing on the table looks more like a beaver to me. The euphemisms abound! ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/42 "2021-01-18T19:26:40Z")
[quote=“SCAdian, post:7, topic:930746”] As Chernick reports in a separate [_Atlas Obscura_](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/first-last-supper-woman-painter-florence) article, Nelli chose to depict Jesus and his 12 apostles dining on fare typically enjoyed by the residents of Santa Caterina. In addition to traditional wine and bread, she included a whole roasted lamb, lettuce heads and **fava beans**.[/quote] …along with a nice chianti? ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/43 "2021-01-19T00:28:24Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > …along with a nice chianti? Well, there **are** glasses of red wine on the table… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Incognito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guy_incognito/32/3920_2.png) [@Guy\_Incognito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Incognito)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/44 "2021-01-20T14:01:02Z")
Wow! First we get a painting that appears to show Christ holding a pickle, now we get a painting of the artist that appears to show her holding a joint. I bet if Plautilla Nelli painted this in modern times it would probably have depicted Christ holding a burrito. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/45 "2021-01-20T16:18:00Z")
> [@Guy\_Incognito](#): > > I bet if Plautilla Nelli painted this in modern times it would probably have depicted Christ holding a burrito. With a Harley parked in the back. WWJD: What Would Jesus Drive? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/46 "2021-01-20T16:26:29Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > No kangaroos, and conjurer and steel band out of shot, but the roasted beastie looks like nothing so much as a yearling wombat, which is probably good as they’d be far tougher eating after that. Ha, my vote was for a wombat too (though the facial features are somewhat monkeyoid). I don’t think we can rule out Christ handing off (or receiving) a small Cuban cigar. ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Incognito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guy_incognito/32/3920_2.png) [@Guy\_Incognito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Incognito)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/47 "2021-01-20T18:36:55Z")
To quote the Screaming Blue Messiahs: “Jesus Chrysler Drives a Dodge” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/48 "2021-01-20T18:55:03Z")
… Just like Al Bundy! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/49 "2021-01-20T20:11:44Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > “These 21st century people have some pretty strange ideas! Apparently they have become too unsophisticated and primitive to understand how to look at a work of art. Do they really imagine I was trying to depict how Jesus and his disciples actually looked?” “Listen, Sister, _I_ understand metaphor just fine. _You_ don’t know how to paint a pig.” > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Portrait_of_Plautilla_Nelli.jpg/175px-Portrait_of_Plautilla_Nelli.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Portrait_of_Plautilla_Nelli.jpg/175px-Portrait_of_Plautilla_Nelli.jpg) > Pautilla Nelli Dank. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/50 "2021-01-22T13:43:15Z")
I keep forgetting that John Hurt was in that. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/51 "2021-01-22T14:04:01Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > (I assume your suggestion of suckling pig is a joke, but just in case, remember that these are all observant Jews.) The artist was a 16th century Italian nun, not a rabbi - she would paint the food she knew (she probably also wouldn’t equate Jesus and his gang with observant jews - in her mind, they’re the first Christians). ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/52 "2021-01-22T14:38:40Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > The artist was a 16th century Italian nun, not a rabbi - she would paint the food she knew (she probably also wouldn’t equate Jesus and his gang with observant jews - in her mind, they’re the first Christians).  Um… no. There was a controversy among the disciples about whether or not Christianity should be extended to Gentiles or limited to Jews, and she would be well aware of that. Your assumption that nuns, especially nuns from wealthy families, would be ignorant is unfounded. The Dominican Constitution of 1259 specifically stated that convents should only accept ‘educated girls’. Dominican nuns were actively encouraged to read and discuss books, and many convents had large libraries. Nuns also copied and illustrated books, and many original texts were written by nuns. Anyway, the animal on the table, as mentioned earlier, is a lamb – highly symbolic. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/53 "2021-01-22T15:06:24Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Your assumption that nuns, especially nuns from wealthy families, would be ignorant is unfounded. Really? Women didn’t exactly get the kind of education that would allow them to appreciate the eating habits of 33CE Palestine. That table is heaving with leavened bread, for starters. You yourself linked to a type Italian biscuit that would have been a common food in her place and time. There’s really nothing here to suggest she’s going for period or kosher detail. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/54 "2021-01-22T15:06:56Z")
From the article inked by the OP: > “ **We think of these nuns as imprisoned, but it was a very enriching world for them** ,” AWA Director Linda Falcone tells Chernick. > > Renaissance women “could obviously paint as part of their cultural education,” Falcone says, “but the only way they could paint large-scale works and get public commissions was through their convent.” > > Most paintings produced by Nelli and her workshop of some eight fellow nuns were smaller devotional works made for outside collectors. But some canvases—including Last Supper and others designed for private use within the convent—were monumental, requiring expensive scaffolding and assistants that the nuns paid for with funds from their commissions. Giorgio Vasari says of Plautilla Nelli in his book _Lives of the Most Excellent Painters, Sculptors and Architects_ (1550) that, “There were so many of her paintings in the houses of gentlemen in Florence, it would be tedious to mention them all.” ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/55 "2021-01-22T15:14:53Z")
As for fava beans, for the Romans and later the Italians, fava beans were symbolic both of death and rebirth. In Italy, fava beans were, and still are, associated with funerals, mourning, and All Souls Day. They are also associated with the feast of St. Joseph. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/56 "2021-01-22T15:19:25Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > That table is heaving with leavened bread, for starters. You yourself linked to a type Italian biscuit that would have been a common food in her place and time. There’s really nothing here to suggest she’s going for period or kosher detail. Did you not get ‘symbolic or allegorical’, rather than literal? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/57 "2021-01-22T15:24:38Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Did you not get ‘symbolic or allegorical’, rather than literal? Point is, she’s using food stuffs that are part of her experience - fava beans, leavened bread, baked biscuits. Symbolic according to her world, of course. But I was responding to the poster who thought the idea that there’d be pork on the table was absurd. Presenting an authentic experience clearly wasn’t her purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/58 "2021-01-22T18:03:51Z")
Nuns know thier Bible, even/espcially back then as it was the main focus of their being. The animal is definitely being used to show the body of Christ as a lamb. So nuns from Renaissance times may be more educated and understanding of allegories than some posters. Either that or they dont have the sense if humor that we have. Unless of course it is a beaver, then we all got the whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/59 "2021-01-22T20:59:39Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Did you notice that of all the disciples, she made Judas the most Jewish? 🤨 Did you mean to say, “Did you notice that of all the disciples, she made Judas most _stereotypically_ Jewish?” At first glance, it does appear Judas is darker than the other apostles, but the reason for that becomes clearer with closer inspection. Note that his hands are much lighter than his face and that his face is not uniformly dark. DaVinci painted Judas in shadow (for obvious symbolic reasons), and as the article notes, Nelli “builds on the style established by Leonardo da Vinci’s similarly themed work.” I’m not convinced either Nelli’s or DaVinci’s depictions of Judas were antisemitic, but maybe you’re seeing something I’ve missed. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746/60 "2021-01-22T21:04:20Z")
It’s a line from Monty Python. Did you watch the clip? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-eating-a-pickle-in-restored-last-supper/930746.md?page=4)