# Christ The Lord: Out of Egypt **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 20, 2005, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433 "2005-12-20T08:19:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/liz/32/17737_2.png) [@Liz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liz)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/1 "2005-12-20T08:19:37Z")
[Latest Anne Rice novel.](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0375412018) Snippet from a review: > [@](#): > > _Christ of the Lord: Out of Egypt_ by Anne Rice tells the story of a seven-year old Jesus who moves to Narzareth after leaving Egypt. Based on the gospels and the scholarship of the New Testament, the novel is told from the perspective of the young Jesus character himself, and from it, one is provided with the capacity to discern the true nature of various aspects of his life relative to his life, ranging from to labor divisions to issues of personal privacy. Has anyone read this as of yet? The reviews look very positive so far, particularly pertaining to her meticulous research, which I always thought was one of her strongest points. I have it on order, but I was wondering if any of you folks could offer opinions. ---
**Author:** ![LorieSmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@LorieSmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LorieSmurf)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/2 "2005-12-21T06:33:16Z")
I was waiting for someone to start a thread about it. I really liked it. I don’t like Anne Rice, and I’m not Catholic (although I am a former Christian), but the reviews were good so I decided to read it. Now I want her to write about when Jesus is older. ---
**Author:** ![LorieSmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@LorieSmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LorieSmurf)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/3 "2006-01-10T07:49:23Z")
Just thought about this thread again today, and I’m bumping it. Sorry that i killed it! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/4 "2006-01-10T08:10:52Z")
I skimmed it. Her research was godawful in this case. Rice has chosen to follow the worst kind of fundy apologetics and cast aspersions on mainstream scholarship which she accuses (in her preface) of “disliking Jesus.” The basis for her conclusions is essentially that she thinks contemporary scholarship “robs Jesus of power.” In other words, she basically says that she doesn’t find objective scholarship aesthetically pleasing to her personally, therefore it must be wrong (she pleads that “Jesus is our LORD” and that any conclusion contrary to that must be false). She bases her premise of the book on a bogus theory about the date of Jesus’ birth and procedes from there. The story itself is typical Rice. Self-indulgent, verbose, slow-moving. There’s no homosexuality, though. It’s just religious glurge. After reading her preface, I was really disappointed to she that she seems to have really gone around the bend with this religious kick she’s on. I know her husband died and this gives her comfort, but she’s starting to sound like a nutter. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/5 "2006-01-10T11:47:22Z")
> [@LorieSmurf](#): > > Just thought about this thread again today, and I’m bumping it. > > Sorry that i killed it! You should just change your name to PontiusPilateSmurf! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/6 "2006-01-10T15:18:35Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I skimmed it. Her research was godawful in this case. Rice has chosen to follow the worst kind of fundy apologetics and cast aspersions on mainstream scholarship which she accuses (in her preface) of “disliking Jesus.” The basis for her conclusions is essentially that she thinks contemporary scholarship “robs Jesus of power.” In other words, she basically says that she doesn’t find objective scholarship aesthetically pleasing to her personally, therefore it must be wrong (she pleads that “Jesus is our LORD” and that any conclusion contrary to that must be false). She bases her premise of the book on a bogus theory about the date of Jesus’ birth and procedes from there. The story itself is typical Rice. Self-indulgent, verbose, slow-moving. There’s no homosexuality, though. It’s just religious glurge. > > After reading her preface, I was really disappointed to she that she seems to have really gone around the bend with this religious kick she’s on. I know her husband died and this gives her comfort, but she’s starting to sound like a nutter. I haven’t gotten around to actually reading the novel. I did read her postscript/testimony & have of course the mirror opposite view of DtC’s. N. T. Wright as a font of “fundy apologetics”? Oh- I guess one must be an ignorant fundy if one actually believes in the God & Jesus of the Bible. I have vacation this week & will use that time to read the novel. I’m really interested if the future volumes pick up on her belief in the major significance of 70 AD (I’m wondering if she’s full or partial preterist). Interestingly enough, also on my reading list- Brouwer (sp?) and Hanengraff’s preterist novel THE LAST SACRIFICE. And a book having little in common with either- Tori Amos’s interviews/autobiography. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/7 "2006-01-10T17:17:01Z")
I wonder what would happen if Ann Rice researched learning how to write. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/8 "2006-01-10T17:42:33Z")
I’ve always considered [Biff](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380813815/qid=1136914828/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-5662860-6089647?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) to be the definitive discussion of young Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/9 "2006-01-10T18:29:54Z")
Not going to read the book, but it IS my new favorite exclamation. Now, when someone surprises me, I don’t say “Holy shit!” anymore, I say “Christ the Lord out of Egypt!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/10 "2006-01-10T19:26:07Z")
> [@Mr Bus Guy](#): > > I’ve always considered [Biff](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380813815/qid=1136914828/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-5662860-6089647?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) to be the definitive discussion of young Jesus. Alright, someone else who’s read Biff. ::high five:: ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/11 "2006-01-10T19:58:17Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Alright, someone else who’s read Biff. ::high five:: “Let’s go get some coffee” ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/12 "2006-01-17T09:06:11Z")
BIFF is on my “To Get” list! Anyway, I finished CTLOOE- not bad, interesting perspective, definitely orthodox. However, not great either. Problem A- she is writing from the POV of Jesus looking back to when he was a little seven-year-old kid wondering why everyone he loves acts so weird around him. There’s a lot of sadness & confusion- not a lot of fire. Which is also the result of Problem B- she is being so reverent about the Person of Jesus, that she writes with an extremely stilted reserve. The last chapter is the best- when Young JC realizes the purpose for His Incarnation. Her afterwod, telling of her journey back to faith, is better still, tho cynics may see it differently. _G_ I do disagree with her eccentric choice of dating JC’s birth as 7 B.C. - I know it’s to match the 4 B.C. date of Herod’s death as well as the 7B.C. Mars-Jupiter conjunction in Pisces. There is good reason, shown by Ernest Martin, for questioning both & moving the date up to about 3-2 B.C. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/13 "2006-01-17T19:26:47Z")
I have never read Rice before but a friend loaned me this book and I thought it was very good. I don’t know about how good or unbiased her research was, that is not my area of expertise at all, but from her notes it certainly sounds like she was passionate about reading and learning as much as she could. I did grow up studying the Bible both formally and informally althought I admit my knowledge of the fall of Jerusalem is lacking. I thought that the way she portrays Jesus as a human child is very believable and very sympathetic. I especially enjoyed the relationships between Jesus and Salome and Jesus and his mother and I do look forward to reading other books she might do on this topic. I wasn’t looking for a historical account in her novel, just an idea of what Jesus might have been like as a child and I though on that level it worked. (One nitpick that did stand out to me as far as accuracy - Mary says in the book that she remained untouched by men even after Jesus was born. Is this a common belief? I always thought it was known that she did have other children after Jesus and I would be suprised if that was not the case.) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/14 "2006-01-17T19:40:47Z")
Anne Rice loves her some Jeebuz, yes she does. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/15 "2006-01-17T19:56:30Z")
The doctrine of perpetual virginity is particualr to Catholicism and is not in the Bible. The Gospels are pretty unambiguous in saying that Jesus had several brothers and sisters. Paul’s epistles refer to James as the “brother of the Lord.” Hell, even Josephus refers to the execution of someone he identifies as “James the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ.” Only two of the Gospels even claim a virgin birth. Mark and John seem unaware of it and Paul never mentions it either, yet all of them matter-of-factly claim that Jesus had siblings and none of them try to explain it or qualify it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/16 "2006-01-17T19:58:48Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > There’s no homosexuality, though. It’s just religious glurge. Well, it’s dedicated to her son Christopher, so at least gays sort of get a “word out”. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I know her husband died and this gives her comfort, but she’s starting to sound like a nutter. Starting to? Puh-lease! The woman’s been going to signing dressed in a black wedding dress and telling how Lestat talks to her in an audible voice for a decade now. She’s already driven to Crazyland, she’s just circling for a parking place now. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/17 "2006-01-17T20:00:31Z")
Taking Rice’s track record into account, we should expect young Jesus to get him some hot monkey-lovin’ with a gay vampire. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Vampire\_Armand](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vampire_Armand) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/18 "2006-01-17T21:23:33Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The doctrine of perpetual virginity is particualr to Catholicism and is not in the Bible. The Gospels are pretty unambiguous in saying that Jesus had several brothers and sisters. Paul’s epistles refer to James as the “brother of the Lord.” > > Hell, even Josephus refers to the execution of someone he identifies as “James the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ.” > > Only two of the Gospels even claim a virgin birth. Mark and John seem unaware of it and Paul never mentions it either, yet all of them matter-of-factly claim that Jesus had siblings and none of them try to explain it or qualify it. Eastern Orthodoxy also holds to the lifelong virginity of the Blessed Mother, as did Luther, Calvin & Wesley. I think the EO tradition is the sibs were the children of Joseph & a deceased wife, while the RC tradition has them as the kids of Cleophas, who they ID’d as Joe’s brother. However, the tradition of Mary as ever-virgin seems to go no further back than late 2nd century (IF that early), and as I don’t have the Hellenist, non-Hebraic hangup about marital carnality that the early Gentile Church Fathers did, I see no reason not to think Mary & Joe had kids of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/19 "2006-01-18T06:48:10Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > After reading her preface, I was really disappointed to she that she seems to have really gone around the bend with this religious kick she’s on. I know her husband died and this gives her comfort, but she’s starting to sound like a nutter. What do you mean _starting to_? She went off the deep end years ago. Her whole, “I don’t need an editor” schtick, the hissyfit on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com), the freaking out over the casting of Tom Cruise as Lestat and then slobbering all over him when she saw the movie, etc. The woman is cracked. **Sampiro** , is it possible you’re related to Anne Rice? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433/20 "2006-01-18T18:15:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > the freaking out over the casting of Tom Cruise as Lestat and then slobbering all over him when she saw the movie, etc. I’ll give you the others, but I don’t blame her for the original freak out. Nor do I blame her for changing her mind after seeing the movie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christ-the-lord-out-of-egypt/336433.md?page=2)