Christian denominations 101

[Zoe]

Polycarp: They are called presbyters or preaching elders, and together make up a presbytery or synod which governs the (denominational) church as a body. (Actually you get regional synods handling regional affairs and then a General Synod handling the whole church.) The local church, on the other hand, has the preaching elder associated with “ordained laymen” (no less solecistic way to put it – businessmen and such who receive ordination) as “ruling elders” and who with him make up the Session (=official board=vestry=parish council=body running the local church). There are also deacons who are not clegymen J.G. as in Catholicism or Methodism but who do outreach ministry.

Sorry, Polycarp. At least in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, it’s the churches that make up the presbyteries, and the presbyteries that make up the synods. There are no ordained laymen. Deacons are optional. The governing board is different from what you describe and separate from the General Assembly which is held once a year.

[Find_Friends]

@tomndebb

The Filioque started off in Spain as a simple expression of an idea that was not really tied to any deep theology. Charlemagne later siezed on the difference in language between the Eastern and Western Church in an attempt to use the power of the church to secure more political power to himself. In the Eastern Church, a fair amount of theology had been written based on the idea that the Son and the Spirit each proceeded from the Father that would need to be undone and re-written if the idea of the Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son was accepted as a theological point. The West really had no vested interest in the discussion outside Charlemagne’s politics and once the schism had come to pass, the West sort of wandered away from the topic. (It is possible to find Western authors who make a point of defending Filioque, of course, but it simply never became a major point in the West…

…Since the Eastern Churches are all, pretty much, “national” churches, (in a way that would get a good head nodding from Henry VIII), they have tended to suffer more issues when the “nations” have broken up or come into conflict. From the middle of the eighteenth century until the early twentieth century, several of these national churches got into fights with neighboring churches, based partly on theology and partly on religious politics, exacerbated by national politics. (Note that several of them were in lands dominated by the Muslim Ottoman Empire and that the situations often changed as the movement toward nationalism grew in post-Napoleanic Europe.) When those churches suffered ther own schisms, the breakaway churches tended to look to Rome for support, leading to their own unions with the Latin Rite Church. Since the Roman/Latin Rite Church was not nearly as concerned about the Filioque, it rarely was an issue in deciding whether one group or another could enter into communion with the Roman church.

Thank you, Tom, especially for the “Uniate movement 101.” Y’know, you really are a[del] royal pain-in-the neck know-it-all[/del] much greater guy that I may have felt early on.

- Jack

[Shot_From_Guns]

Off the top of my head, some things that distinguish Catholicism:

[ul]
[li]Transubstantiation: The Eucharistic bread and wine are turned into the literal body and blood of Jesus. (This is why a non-Catholic should never take Communion at a Catholic Mass–it’s very disrespectful to their beliefs.)[/li][li]Marian devotion and the Saints: This is something that a lot of non-Catholic Christians take issue with, viewing it as idolatry. However, the general Catholic idea is that you’re not praying to Mary or a Saint because you think they have power, but because of their special relationship with God, so you ask them to intercede on your behalf.[/li][li]The Pope: The Pope is recognized as the head of the Church on Earth. 'Nough said.[/li][li]Confession: You must confess your sins to a priest and repent of them to gain absolution (for example, if you confessed to murder, a priest couldn’t report it, but he *could *withhold absolution until you turned yourself in). Some sort of penance is given–traditionally this would be something like a set number of prayers, but more recently some priests will give a penance that is tailored to the sin (e.g., if a child is disrespectful to his mother, he may be ordered to help her with some chore that day).[/li][li]Church tradition: Catholic doctrine is founded not only on the contents of the Bible, but also on the living traditions of the Church.[/li][/ul]

NB: I’m an atheist, but I was raised Catholic, identified as Catholic until 17, and attended a Catholic K-8 grade school, a Catholic high school, and a Jesuit university.

[aruvqan]

@kunilou

Like any large family, you’ll see some of the bitterest divisions over things that, to an outsider, seem irrelevant, if not downright silly. To baptize someone, do you need to dunk them fully into the water, or is it okay to sprinkle some over their head? Is the Bible a book of stories that are supposed to make points, or is it a literal history? Is it okay if I participate in communion at your church, or is it for members only? Is marriage a permanent, unbreakable bond, or can two people who decided to marry later decide to un-marry?

Churches have split over those questions, and less.

heck, what basically drove me away from [baptist] christianity was the major schism in my parents church.

Pastor of some 60 years finally dies. The church does what is normal and gets a committee together to interview a number of possible ministers. It gets narrowed down to 3 finalists, each of which move in and perform for 4 months, a sort of hands on audition. SO far, so good. I have no problem with this, if anything it is a great way to see if the deal is a good match or not.

The trouble came when they decided on a guy, and it is going well for the first year. Then the theological shit hit the fan. [I would give details, but I was 12 and really only aware peripherally. My mom is in moderate alzheimers and doesnt remember crap so I cant ask her …] He was teaching a typical adult class during the week. They started discussing various miracles [glossolalia, the tongue of flame, healing and the like] To be honest, I cant remember which he espoused but the church split into a number of factions - miracles happened back then but not now, miracles happened and still do, and my faction - i don’t give a shit, pass the casserole. The arguments raged literally for 9 freaking months over something that sensible people would agree to disagree about. He finally did the smart thing, requested a release from his contract because there would be no resolution. It took SIX fucking years of arguing until they finally found the most namy pamby, whitebread wishy washy pablum minister that had no opinions about anything and offended nobody. Half the congregation gave up and moved into a different church … and I decided that I was a deist [there is something but I have no idea who is right is they are all right until proven differently. Except for some satanists who are just silly, and some new agers who need their heads examined because not everybody was Julius Caesar and Cleopatra in a previous life, someone has to have been a slave girl!]

mrAru is what he terms ‘catholic light’ - episcopalian =)

[Find_Friends]

Thank you, Tom, especially for the “Uniate movement 101.” Y’know, you really are a [del]
royal pain-in-the neck know-it-all[/del]
much greater guy THAT I may have felt early on.

My emphasis added. However, it was only to my quote of myself, so…
Oooops! I was so focused on getting everything else right, that I missed that placed instead of than. :eek:

That may have given the wrong impression.

Sheeesh!
- Jack

[Ludovic]

@Mister_Rik

he began to have problems with the CoC doctrine and ended up getting himself essentially blackballed out of there.

What, he believed that the holy would be eaten Last?

[CurtC]

@Alessan

What about the Armenians? Don’t they constitute a seperate church?

Not to be confused with Arminianism.

[Bridget_Burke]

@Shot_From_Guns

Off the top of my head, some things that distinguish Catholicism:

[ul]
[li]Transubstantiation: The Eucharistic bread and wine are turned into the literal body and blood of Jesus. (This is why a non-Catholic should never take Communion at a Catholic Mass–it’s very disrespectful to their beliefs.)[/li][li]Marian devotion and the Saints: This is something that a lot of non-Catholic Christians take issue with, viewing it as idolatry. However, the general Catholic idea is that you’re not praying to Mary or a Saint because you think they have power, but because of their special relationship with God, so you ask them to intercede on your behalf.[/li][li]The Pope: The Pope is recognized as the head of the Church on Earth. 'Nough said.[/li][li]Confession: You must confess your sins to a priest and repent of them to gain absolution (for example, if you confessed to murder, a priest couldn’t report it, but he *could *withhold absolution until you turned yourself in). Some sort of penance is given–traditionally this would be something like a set number of prayers, but more recently some priests will give a penance that is tailored to the sin (e.g., if a child is disrespectful to his mother, he may be ordered to help her with some chore that day).[/li][li]Church tradition: Catholic doctrine is founded not only on the contents of the Bible, but also on the living traditions of the Church.[/li][/ul]

NB: I’m an atheist, but I was raised Catholic, identified as Catholic until 17, and attended a Catholic K-8 grade school, a Catholic high school, and a Jesuit university.

The Jesuits have educated many an atheist!

[CurtC]

There was something I read one time something like this:

A Baptist is a Pentecostal with shoes
A Methodist is a Baptist with indoor plumbing

all the way up to

An Episcopalian is a Lutheran with a yacht.

Or some such silliness, but it was funny. Can anyone dig it up? My google-fu is weak today.

[Find_Friends]

@CurtC

There was something I read one time something like this:

A Baptist is a Pentecostal with shoes…

…Or some such silliness, but it was funny. Can anyone dig it up? My google-fu is weak today.

I’ll be glad to help out. I’ll have plenty of time tonight.

- Jack

[Sunspace]

So where do the Seventh-Day Adventists fit into this? All I know about their doctrine is that my SDA friends go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday.

[Sheepish]

and what about the Swedenborgians?

[Sunspace]

@Sheepish

and what about the Swedenborgians?

Friends got married at the Swedenborgian Church in San Francisco. When I received the invitation and read it out load, the reaction around me was, “They’re getting married where?” I thought the place was a New Age survival from the 1960s, and was surprised to find out its history.

[Sheepish]

My gran’s a swedenborgian / christian scientist, my gramps was a spiritualist, my other gran was jewish and my other gramps was presbyterian.

That makes me …

Canadian, i guess.

I remember my gran had a book explaining the doctrine and history of emmanuel swedenborg. Very similar to Christian Science and the “mind over matter” idea as I recall. S

[delphica]

@Alessan

What about the Armenians? Don’t they constitute a seperate church?

There are two of them, as it happens. Armenian Apostolic, that carries the official name of One Holy Universal Apostolic Orthodox Armenian Church, and the much tinier Armenian Catholic Church.