# Christian dopers...would a Pagan "heaven" be a Hell to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824 "2003-12-09T01:52:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/1 "2003-12-09T01:52:28Z")
A _very_ silly little topic for “debate” that just popped into my head. Say you, a Christian, die after leading a fairly good and virtuous life. However, after death, you wake up in the heaven of a _pagan_ religion…like the [Elysian Fields](http://users.iafrica.com/n/ne/nephilim/elysium.html). Jehovah is nowhere to be found. But, it seems, the Pagan gods _do_ exist…in fact, you could meet with and talk to them yourselves. And it turns out that _they_ were of the “true” religion, all this time. Christianity was “wrong.” Even though you weren’t a Pagan, since were still a “good” person in life, you were still granted access to the “good” afterlife. And it’s a perfectly nice, pleasant, place to be (“place to _live_” doesn’t really work, I suppose). Just as nice as the Christian Heaven would have been. What would your reaction be, to something like that happening to you? Good? Bad? Would it be “Hellish,” even, to find yourself in the “wrong” afterlife? Like I said, it’s a silly question, and one right off of the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/2 "2003-12-09T02:03:33Z")
It would be likedying and waking upto a world of pink elephants and coldsuns. Strange, and totallynot making sense of everything I knew to be true about Heaven whilst on earth. I would be disappointed seriously that Jesus wasn’tthere, and wonder why He was realwhen I was alive and not afterwards. But…it ain’tgonna happen,so thats my hypothetical answer to the hypothetical question. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/3 "2003-12-09T02:05:04Z")
please excuse the words without spaces between them, my keyboard seems to be the culprit. ---
**Author:** ![disponibilite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@disponibilite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/disponibilite)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/4 "2003-12-09T02:29:03Z")
Christians are promised an afterlife— But the Bible is very vague about what type of afterlife that might be. Something about living in palaces and something about never having to marry (thank God). So I don’t see why any Christian would be disappointed in any kind of pleasant afterlife. Let the wild orgies begin!!! ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/5 "2003-12-09T02:53:33Z")
worshipping Jesus and thanking Him for letting us be there is the whole POINT of Heaven, so it doesn’t make sense, your scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/6 "2003-12-09T03:03:24Z")
A couple of very dear friends of mine are Wiccan, so my initial reaction to the idea of encountering a Pagan afterlife as opposed to a Christian one was “Sounds good to me!” Then I thought about it. You see, their idea of where this body I happen to be wearing goes after it dies isn’t exactly the Elysian Fields, nor is it a final destination as a rule. It is, instead, a place to look over this life, see what I’ve done right, what I’ve done wrong, what lessons I’ve learned, and what lessons I’ve yet to learn. So far so good, right? The thing is, after that review, chances are there are still going to be things I need to learn and things I need to work on. That means it’s back to Earth to learn the next set of lessons. That’s not exactly the unabated bliss of the Christian Heaven or the Elysian Fields. In parables, Christ refers to people laboring in the fields, an idea that carries over into one of my favorite hymns, “Come, Labor On.” That hymn finishes “and a glad sound comes with the setting sun, ‘Servants, well done.’” As I understand my friends’ belief, that may be true, but the alarm clock will ring tomorrow. Even with that version, though, granting it could be a form of hell to some people or done in some ways, I like to think I’d accept God’s will and God’s judgement. There is still an incredible amount I don’t know, and I could very well be most wrong about the things I believe most strongly. I’ve often pictured the afterlife as a chance to learn all the things I don’t know; this could be one way of doing it, if not the most pleasant. Besides, if Heaven does turn out to be something radically unexpected and completely unimagined, that just gives me more room to indulge my curiousity. I could run amok exploring the ideas and concepts alone!😃 That’s much more fun than sitting on a cloud playing a harp!😉 Hanging out in the Presence and Wisdom of God, however . . . . Interesting and fun question! CJ ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/7 "2003-12-09T03:05:46Z")
What **vanilla** said. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/8 "2003-12-09T03:12:26Z")
hey! thanks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/9 "2003-12-09T04:56:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*worshipping Jesus and thanking Him for letting us be there is the whole POINT of Heaven, so it doesn’t make sense, your scenario. \*\* I think the **point** of Jesus was to show us how to live and treat each other, i.e. unconditional love and sacrifice. I’m not convinced it was to give us a new agent to worship. So, as a Christian who doesn’t completely embrace Christianity, I’m good with whatever happens; except dirt, I don’t want to just be dirt.:eek: Orgies might be okay, but no dirt. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/10 "2003-12-09T05:01:35Z")
Well, it worked out all right for Donander of Evre. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/11 "2003-12-09T07:11:33Z")
Hmmm. If I were to find myself in the Elysian Fields instead of in the Presence of the All-Transcendant God, well… I think I’d be disappointed. Would I think it was Hell? Um, no. I figure after all the crap I’ve gone through here on Earth, any reasonably pleasant afterlife would be acceptable. Reincarnation, OTOH, would be my idea of Hell. To spend a lifetime on this planet being kicked around by evil people, then have to come back, no thanks. I’d prefer annhilation to that. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/12 "2003-12-09T07:28:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*Well, it worked out all right for Donander of Evre. \*\* I know _I_ married a goddess (admittedly, not Norse), so maybe I’m headed down Donander’s path. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/13 "2003-12-09T07:36:34Z")
Well, as long as I don’t get a 70 year-old virgin, I’ll be okay with it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/14 "2003-12-09T14:19:20Z")
Depends on the afterlife, I suppose. Elysian Fields, I could cope with. Valhalla … bit rowdy for my tastes. (Though, do you get to Valhalla by being a “good” person in a Christian sense? I wouldn’t have thought so … ) Well … anyway, my feeling is, I’m here to be a Christian as much as I can be in the here and now. As to the hereafter, I’ll admit to a certain level of curiosity about it … but not enough to make me want to go there right away. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/15 "2003-12-09T15:03:20Z")
I’d be confused, and feel a bit stupid. Heck, I’d spend a while before I was convinved this wasn’t some kind of test. But I’d adapt. ---
**Author:** ![sghoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@sghoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sghoul)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/16 "2003-12-09T15:04:32Z")
An eternity of ANYTHING would be heel for me unless my brain changed. Christian Heaven seems ok to me, as I assume God would make it that I could cope with existsing for eternity. The only other afterlife that sounds ok is Nirvana, and that is only because (to my understanding) you don’t really exists much in that case. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/17 "2003-12-09T15:06:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IWLN \* > \*\*I think the **point** of Jesus was to show us how to live and treat each other, i.e. unconditional love and sacrifice. \*\* **wrong**. The point of Jesus was to be a sacrifice for our sins, He had to be punished or we could never be forgiven. Youre welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/18 "2003-12-09T15:07:23Z")
It’s certainly better than some of the alternatives (oblivion, hell, earthly reincartion, as **Thea** mentioned). ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/19 "2003-12-09T15:23:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\ ***wrong**. > The point of Jesus was to be a sacrifice for our sins, He had to be punished or we could never be forgiven. > Youre welcome. \*\* **Wrong**. God could do anything he wanted to. Including forgive us, no charge. Jesus did not have to be punished. God was trying to get a message across. He was not trying to exclude most of the world from eternal life. That just doesn’t make sense. I know what you’re saying is what we were taught. It is either wrong or God isn’t really a loving God or God isn’t _there_. God is not exclusionary, Christianty is. ---
**Author:** ![sghoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@sghoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sghoul)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/20 "2003-12-09T15:35:04Z")
IWLN, So, you believe everyone gets the reward regardless of actions? That sounds ever sillier that being exclusionary. Besides, who are you to decide what is wrong or right as far as God is concerned? I am pretty sure only He can do that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824.md?page=2)