# Christian dopers...would a Pagan "heaven" be a Hell to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824 "2003-12-09T01:52:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/21 "2003-12-09T15:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*But…it ain’tgonna happen,so thats my hypothetical answer to the hypothetical question. > 🙂 \*\* Hrm… interesting. That’s exactly my response when Christians ask me what would I do if I die and ended up in Christian heaven. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/22 "2003-12-09T15:49:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sghoul \* > \*\*IWLN, > > So, you believe everyone gets the reward regardless of actions? That sounds ever sillier that being exclusionary. > > Besides, who are you to decide what is wrong or right as far as God is concerned? I am pretty sure only He can do that. \*\* Where did I say, regardless of actions? Not my call. God can do what he wants. He did. We missed the message. So when you’re talking about people getting “the reward”, are you worried that someone might get it that isn’t as good??? It doesn’t change eternal life for me if someone else gets it. As a matter of fact, I hope it applies to the whole damn world. How do you know that a book with so many inconsistencies is correct about Jesus? And who are you to decide what’s right and wrong. At least I care about all people and not just Christians. ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/23 "2003-12-09T16:27:55Z")
y’know, descriptions of the Christian afterlife is one of the things that drove me away from my fundie background. Loads of Christians all gathered around God constantly praising him, blah blah blah. How boring. Where’s my dinner? Where’s the love of my life? This was really worrying to me when I was a a blushing virgin. What if I died before I got to have sex? Would I have sex in heaven? This was really disturbing to me. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/24 "2003-12-09T16:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*worshipping Jesus and thanking Him for letting us be there is the whole POINT of Heaven, so it doesn’t make sense, your scenario. \*\* Heaven as an eternity-long church service. That’s certainly my definition of Hell. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/25 "2003-12-09T16:52:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sghoul \* > \*\*IWLN, > > So, you believe everyone gets the reward regardless of actions? That sounds ever sillier that being exclusionary.\*\* What’s the alternative? In what way does the concept of eternal punishment, the usual flip to eternal joy, make sense? No misdeed in this world, no matter how heinous, justifies an endless eternity of agonizing punishment. Anyone who would support such a belief is a sadist of the first order. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/26 "2003-12-09T17:32:15Z")
> [@](#): > > No misdeed in this world, no matter how heinous, justifies an endless eternity of agonizing punishment. Anyone who would support such a belief is a sadist of the first order. Unless you think, as I do, that Hell a state, a state of being for those who have sundered themselves from creation and from God. Your choice. But anyway, to be honest with you, most of the Pagan afterlives suck. Wenching and Feasting? Oh boy, that’ll get old in about a week. The Chinese and Egyption ones are very dull. The Greeks more or less had no beliefs about it at all. Frankly, it’d be a nihtmare for me. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/27 "2003-12-09T17:51:36Z")
I certainly expect to be surprised at whatever I find in heaven. Jesus spoke in parable and metaphor, using common images to describe the indescribable. He spoke of wedding banquets and houses of many rooms to evoke celebration and inclusion. I doubt human minds can conceive what an infinity of anything would be like, including time; it’s just as unlikely that we can imagine the reality of the place/state/whatever where we’ll spend it. So, whether I’m issued a harp and wings, or a battle-axe and a shield, I’ll go with it. And, yeah, if there isn’t a recognizable Jesus there, I’ll be surprised. But it’s not as if it’ll _kill_ me . . . ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/28 "2003-12-09T18:31:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ouisey \* > \*\*y’know, descriptions of the Christian afterlife is one of the things that drove me away from my fundie background. > > Loads of Christians all gathered around God constantly praising him, blah blah blah.\*\* Did you ever think that God seems to have some serious self-esteem issues? ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/29 "2003-12-09T18:44:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spectrum \* > \*\*Heaven as an eternity-long church service. That’s certainly my definition of Hell. \*\* Amen.🙂 Mine too. We’ll revolt!! ---
**Author:** ![disponibilite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@disponibilite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/disponibilite)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/30 "2003-12-09T18:48:06Z")
Since the Bible makes a point of NOT saying anything much about heaven, besides palaces there and no marrying allowed then— Most obviously Heaven will be whatever you want it to be, whatever gives you the most pleasure. If it is wild orgies that give you pleasure, then that is what you get. If it is an all encompassing intelligence that you want, then that is what you get. If it is sitting under a tree and sniffing flowers for eternity, then that is what you get. If you suddenly change your mind in heaven as to what you would like, then instantly that is what you get. And that is the Christian heaven. Beats the hell out of the Muslim heaven where all you get is 72 virgins for eternity. (What good is a virgin for anyway?–much less 72 complete incompetents) ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/31 "2003-12-09T18:49:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVAA \* > \*\*Did you ever think that God seems to have some serious self-esteem issues? \*\* Probably not. I think a bunch of brown-nosers are just trying to get a better seat. I’ll sit in the back, I have some behavior problems I need to work, so I’m hoping to stay anonymous for awhile. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/32 "2003-12-09T20:53:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ouisey \* > Where’s the love of my life? This was really worrying to me when I was a a blushing virgin. What if I died before I got to have sex? Would I have sex in heaven? This was really disturbing to me. I thought the idea was that praising God was better than sex. Which means, on some level, God == porn. Jesus spooge! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/33 "2003-12-09T22:08:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spectrum \* > \*\*Heaven as an eternity-long church service. That’s certainly my definition of Hell. \*\* you must not be going to the right services. The ones I’ve gone to are fun and pleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/34 "2003-12-09T22:18:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ouisey \* > \*\*y’know, descriptions of the Christian afterlife is one of the things that drove me away from my fundie background. > > Loads of Christians all gathered around God constantly praising him, blah blah blah. > > How boring. Where’s my dinner? Where’s the love of my life? This was really worrying to me when I was a a blushing virgin. What if I died before I got to have sex? Would I have sex in heaven? This was really disturbing to me. \*\* Really. What was it Billy Joel said? “I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints?” Well, you’re not crying, but if you’re just sitting around kissing God’s ass, well, that doesn’t sound like much fun. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/35 "2003-12-09T22:28:58Z")
I always figured we’dhave fun jobs to do. Like travel to Mars and give them their supplies for theweek, or anything, really. My son wants to visit the moon, maybe he’ll be able to then. It is mentioned about eating (there are fruit trees) and a nice stream… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/36 "2003-12-09T22:51:46Z")
So wait-does that mean I could become a Jedi Knight, **vanilla**? Because that would be so freaking cool. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/37 "2003-12-09T23:14:19Z")
if what **vanilla** says is true, I will wind up traveling about the universe figuring it out, and pizza will appear when I want it. oh yeah and the orgies, ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/38 "2003-12-09T23:41:33Z")
For me, the main appeal of Heaven is that… You get to hang out with God. Banquets? meh. Big ol’ honkin mansions? I’ll take a pass. Being with God would be so mind-blowingly awesome, any of what would be considered pleasures would pale by comparison. Loving communion with God and all Creation… Yeah. I’ll take it. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/39 "2003-12-10T00:55:05Z")
Heaven, hmmm…I was looking more for the exhilaration that feels like being in the middle of the river paddling against a class 4 rapid, the awesome feeling that goes with listening to really really good music (mine, not God’s, maybe classice rock 'n roll), the peace and serenity of quiet, crisp air and warm sunshine, the joy of creating(whether it’s a baby or a piece of art), the completeness of loving someone else with all your heart and the complete, full feeling of gratitude for all those feelings. Sometimes I think we’re here right now to receive the gift of knowing the full range of experience and emotion. Way to go God.🆒 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824/40 "2003-12-10T02:37:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*So wait-does that mean I could become a Jedi Knight, **vanilla**? > > Because that would be so freaking cool. \*\* I have no idea what a Jedi is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-dopers-would-a-pagan-heaven-be-a-hell-to-you/217824.md?page=3)