# Christian God and Gay People **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2001, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676 "2001-11-28T07:05:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/21 "2001-11-28T22:38:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ssj\_man2k \* > **If your god is a loving and forgiving god, why would oppress people by not letting them feel secure in their feelings, i.e. not letting gay people be gay?** God frowns upon oppression. Why would He want Christians to commit a sin based on their outrage at the sins of another? He wouldn’t. Homosexuality is sinful, but so is heterosexuality…and so is oppression…against any orientation, race, gender, height, etc, etc. The Christian “masses” are hardly a representation of Christ. The greatest command is to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And the second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. Remember these two things and everything else falls into place. ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/22 "2001-11-28T23:58:04Z")
Ok, thanx for the feedback. But why wouldn’t god accept homosexuality? What is the reasoning behind not accepting it? Especially in a time of such horrible overpopulation. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/23 "2001-11-29T00:28:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ssj\_man2k \* > \*\*It is my understanding that most Christians (feel free to correct me) are opposed to homosexuality. > > \*\* I am not a religous authority, but I read in the Chronicle & other papers about “gay ministries” and Ministers marrying gay couples- not to mention that dudes Polycarps post above. Sure, I have also heard about some groups condemning them- but also the Jews & Muslems, to some extent (more than Christianity?) oppose homosexuality. Would not be surprized if some Hindus, Buddist, and Sikhs do also, not to mention many still extant tribal religions. So, let me call you on your OP. Can you show us info that says “MOST Christians are OPPOSED to homosexuality”? Can you show that the % of Christian groups who do so is higher than other faiths? I don’t know, maybe they are. But it seems like a poor start if your basic premise is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/24 "2001-11-29T00:33:11Z")
**Polycarp** , I want to thank you for digging up those old threads. I was going to do it, so you spared me quite a bit of trouble. However, here’s another old thread that needed digging up. Hey, **Ethrilist** , **jcmckaig** and others who got a kick out of the grossly ignorant page that Ethrilist linked to: check out [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26093), which puts to the lie the accusations of hypocrisy in that “letter.” ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/25 "2001-11-29T00:42:06Z")
I read that letter posted by Ethrilist. Pretty good. Was there a documented reply? I think that might be funnier. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/26 "2001-11-29T00:59:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ssj\_man2k \* > \*\* Especially in a time of such horrible overpopulation. \*\* The world is _not_ overpopulated. We could carry maybe double our current load of people with existing resources, and more as we get better at exploiting and re-using resources. ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/27 "2001-11-29T01:10:27Z")
Well, if the population did double, we would probably run out of resources VERY fast. But yes, the world is overpopulated. When tons of people are starving, you know that place is overpopulated. And just look at the damage done to the earth itself. Almost all of our forests are gone, compared what they use to be, and you can’t drink river water anymore, and alot of ocean water is dirty too. This is because of overpopulation. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/28 "2001-11-29T01:40:35Z")
Dale The Bold wrote: > [@](#): > > Homosexuality is sinful, but so is heterosexuality… **All** heterosexuality? :eek: Yeesh! I’d better run off and joind the Shakers **right now!** ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/29 "2001-11-29T01:43:03Z")
Actually, no, it’s because of industrial waste mostly. Even in places untouched by pollution, humans still can’t drink river water because we’ve lost the immunity to giardia and lots of little bacteria that crawl around in there. People aren’t starving because of overpopulation, either. People are starving because of maldistribution of resources and war. Most of the starving third world nations are in that predicament because of internal domestic chaos, not because of lack of potential. Plus, most of them don’t have the benefits of the “green revolution” in agriculture as do most first world nations. The forest thing could be solved easily if folks would give up their suburban homes and move into apartments. Then we could bulldoze the land and reforest it (or redesert it in the American southwest). It’s not overpopulation, it’s bad use of resources and land. ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/30 "2001-11-29T02:08:17Z")
Then what about that land taken up by apartments? That use to be something too. And plus, not everyone likes apartments. I’d live in a house if i could. Also, humans weren’t meant to live in cramped apartments, most humans evolved to fit a nomadic lifestyle. While this isn’t true today, i’m sure no one likes living in a small little apartment. ---
**Author:** ![dierson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@dierson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dierson)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/31 "2001-11-29T02:37:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Dale The Bold wrote: > > > [@](#): > > > > Homosexuality is sinful, but so is heterosexuality… > > **All** heterosexuality? :eek: Yeesh! I’d better run off and joind the Shakers **right now!** \*\* Shaking is the worst sin of all! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/32 "2001-11-29T02:44:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jcmckaig \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by DAVEW0071 \* > > \*\* > > It is people who work themselves up over which sins are the worst and run around yelling, “God hates fags” and such…I suggest that your problem is with intolerant Christians rather than with God. \*\* > > That was what I was getting at in my first post, though I did not articulate it very well. Well Said! > But I have to disagree with you **DAVEW0071** on “all sins are equal”. > > There are greater punishments placed on some sins, for example: > > Murder, homosexuality, beastiality, etc. are punishable by death. Whereas lies, adultery, coveting, etc. are not.\*\* First, thank you for the “well said.” It’s nice to be appreciated. But I think you misunderstood what else I said. Or perhaps you’re taking it to a level I hadn’t intended. When I said > [@](#): > > I don’t believe God quantifies sin. In other words, I don’t believe that any one sin is worse than another **in God’s eyes.** (my emphasis) Sin is sin, and “little white lies” are just as sinful as cheating on your tax return. And committing any sin, just once, separates us from God. So we are all equal in God’s eyes, because everyone sins. I was addressing God’s assessment of sin relative to himself, not any punishments called for in pursuing earthly justice. Your paraphrasing of what I said to turn it into “all sins are equal” isn’t in keeping with my original contention. If I’m incorrect, I hope someone will point it out, but I believe the instructions to the Hebrews in Leviticus were God’s guidelines for how a new nation should interpret the law and mete out justice here on earth. This would lend itself to quantifying and qualifying offenses and balancing punishments for said offenses. It would hardly make sense, after all, to inflict capital punishment on someone who stole a loaf of bread. But I wasn’t addressing earthly crime and punishment. I was speaking solely of any single sin, “large” or “small”, being an offense to a perfect God. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/33 "2001-11-29T02:58:09Z")
> [@](#): > > _I’m quoting myself_ > **Homosexuality is sinful, but so is heterosexuality…** I think I need to clarify this. IMHO, homosexuals are not sinning by merely existing and “being” homosexual, but sexual acts, homosexual or not, are still sinful unless done within the laws of the bible (a.k.a. marriage). So, in other words, be as gay as you want, but don’t have sex. If you do have sex, then you are as sinful as everyone else who has sex outside of marriage (which is most people). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/34 "2001-11-29T03:09:08Z")
jcmckaig: > [@](#): > > Murder, homosexuality, beastiality, etc. are punishable by death. Whereas lies, adultery, coveting, etc. are not. A correction, sir: adultery is punishable by death in the Bible. Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/db5fbb/32.png) [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/35 "2001-11-29T03:17:24Z")
**JimPatro:** > [@](#): > > Its been found (sorry no cites) that homophobia stems from latent, shall we say, urges. > > … > > Two men together does honestly make me sick when I think about it. 😕 So are you gay, or just confused? And found where? Between the couch cushions next to my keys? I’m know you said no cites, but could you at least give me a hint? Maybe we could play **“Hot or Cold”** to figure out where you got this particular tidbit of information. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/36 "2001-11-29T03:39:20Z")
**DAVEW0071** - My apologies if I took your statement out of context, I did not mean to sound “holier than thou”. _Rimshot_ **cmkeller** -Re: Adultery = death. You are correct sir. I attribute that to a typo, but it may very well have been me not paying enough attention to the phrase. BTW, about the letter to Dr. Laura: Being the neutral person that I am, I found the humor. However, I also see the way it is easily shot down. I always find amusement in the people who try to discount the bible, by bringing up “facts”, as it is fun to watch them crumble when you find a passage that renders their argument useless. On the other hand, I love to throw facts at the Christian fundies. (I just love a debate) 🙂 **ssj\_man2k** - I am still not sure whether you are a troll, moron, or 14 yo boy. A lesser man would start a pit thread, instead I shall look forward to your next endeavour into the world of intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/37 "2001-11-29T03:49:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dale The Bold \* > **I think I need to clarify this. IMHO, homosexuals are not sinning by merely existing and “being” homosexual, but sexual acts, homosexual or not, are still sinful unless done within the laws of the bible (a.k.a. marriage).** I was beginning to think you were intolerant, Dale. Glad to see you believe in gay marriage 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/38 "2001-11-29T06:43:21Z")
OK, one more thing. I think it’s obvious that most sins are things that hurt other people (adultery, murder, etc.) But I still don’t get why being a homosexual would be a sin. It doesn’t hurt anyone. What’s the reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/39 "2001-11-29T06:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jcmckaig \* > instead I shall look forward to your next endeavour into the world of intelligence. \*\* I’ll tell you how it is when im at Harvard studying. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676/40 "2001-11-29T14:43:02Z")
“It doesn’t hurt anyone.” Well, only the first time… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-god-and-gay-people/95676.md?page=3)