# Christian Militias. Just what we need... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239 "2010-03-29T19:05:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/101 "2010-03-30T22:44:05Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > On their BeastWatch page, they even have the humorous list of “Numbers of the Beast”. > > [http://www.hutaree.com/ezrafiles.htm](http://www.hutaree.com/ezrafiles.htm) > > Yeah, they’ll need that sense of humor… IN PRISON! They missed one: 669 – The Beast with two backs. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/102 "2010-03-31T01:23:26Z")
The charge of seditious conspiracy carries a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison; attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction carries a statutory maximum penalty of life in prison; teaching the use of explosives materials carriers a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison; and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence carries a mandatory minimum penalty of five years in prison. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20100329/pl\_usnw/DC78082\_1](http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20100329/pl_usnw/DC78082_1) Sooo, not exactly kid gloves. More like life. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/103 "2010-03-31T01:32:18Z")
Why are they being given Constitutional rights?These are terrorists right? why should they receive a trial on US territory? Why do Christian terrorists get different treatment than Muslim terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/104 "2010-03-31T02:13:40Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > . . . attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction carries a statutory maximum penalty of life in prison; teaching the use of explosives materials carriers a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison . . . 😕 Since when is a weapon of mass destruction a pipe bomb rather than CBRN? And teaching? Is [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=explosives%20engineering&index=blended) going to be these Hutarees cellmates? Or an M.I.T. professor who uses these books for their class? I don’t think too many people are spending $135.20 so they can have something to read on the beach. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/105 "2010-03-31T02:16:56Z")
What the hell is with the _Colonial_ Christian Republic? Do they think Obama is a Cylon or something? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/106 "2010-03-31T02:57:44Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > What the hell is with the _Colonial_ Christian Republic? A place for Christian’s colons, as opposed to us heathen assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/107 "2010-03-31T06:00:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why are they being given Constitutional rights?These are terrorists right? why should they receive a trial on US territory? Why do Christian terrorists get different treatment than Muslim terrorists? Um, god said so? After all, Muslim terrorists get 72 virgins, so you gotta offer the Christians _something_. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/108 "2010-03-31T12:16:14Z")
Where are the Republicans to explain how the Democrats handled this one so poorly? Staying out of it so not to offend their base of crazy right wing Christians? Votes are more important than principles huh. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/109 "2010-03-31T15:06:15Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Where are the Republicans to explain how the Democrats handled this one so poorly? Staying out of it so not to offend their base of crazy right wing Christians? Votes are more important than principles huh. Uhm, stretch much? These guys were going after local cops. I think the number of constituents who would support these guys is vanishingly small. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/110 "2010-03-31T15:10:48Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > And teaching? Is [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=explosives%20engineering&index=blended) going to be these Hutarees cellmates? Or an M.I.T. professor who uses these books for their class? That bugged me out as well, but the news report I saw said (badly paraphrased from memory) that the offense was “teaching explosives creation with the intent to cause harm”. I know that my paraphrasing leaves some other qualifiers out, also – for instance, I think there was a clause attached to “harm”, indicating non-military use. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/111 "2010-03-31T15:13:49Z")
Not support them, no, but the Republicans don’t want to call attention to the existence of domestic, right wing Christian terrorists either. Reemmber how indignant they were when we were warned about the potential rise of homegrown, right wing terrorism? That was supposed to be an outrageous and ludicrous possibility. Terrorists are only supposed to be Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/112 "2010-03-31T15:25:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not support them, no, but the Republicans don’t want to call attention to the existence of domestic, right wing Christian terrorists either. Reemmber how indignant they were when we were warned about the potential rise of homegrown, right wing terrorism? That was supposed to be an outrageous and ludicrous possibility. Terrorists are only supposed to be Muslim. The “outrage” by Congresscritters, such as it was, reflected that report’s warning about disaffected (or something like that) ex-military types. It was a “don’t we all support the troops” thingy. [Like this.](http://demint.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=b519c530-a7bb-b041-8d99-92df3ec1aba7) > [@](#): > > “This document is absurd and offensive,” said Sen. DeMint. “It suggests that Secretary Napolitano believes our Navy SEALs could be an equal or greater threat than the pirates they took down. Does the President really agree that veterans and tea party soccer moms are terrorists-in-waiting?” > > “Certainly, extremism of all varieties is a threat to the United States and her citizens throughout the world,” said Vitter. “But I don’t believe that this report contains any evidence that would justify singling out these particular groups of Americans as suspected terrorists. To suggest that returning soldiers or Second Amendment rights advocates are prone to joining extremist groups is insulting and highly inflammable… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/113 "2010-03-31T15:47:13Z")
That was part of it, but they were outraged about the words “right wing” in general. The report also didn’t say that veterans were a threat _per se_, it said that they could be targeted for recruitment by domestic terrorist groups, which is a whole different thing. Anyway, my point is that the suggestion above was not the political right supports Christian terrorist groups, but that they don’t like to call attention to them because it detracts from their xenophobic, holy war narrative. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/114 "2010-03-31T15:52:51Z")
Maybe. But these guys are just soooooooo far out there, that I can’t see it being an issue. In the OP, I mentioned how it was reported that even the “normal” militia types (who are pretty far out there to begin with) didn’t want anything to do with these guys. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/115 "2010-03-31T15:54:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Anyway, my point is that the suggestion above was not the political right supports Christian terrorist groups, but that they don’t like to call attention to them because it detracts from their xenophobic, holy war narrative. Yep. The conservatives are, once again, demonstrating that _they_ are the PC ones and _they_ are the ones who get offended by reality. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/116 "2010-03-31T15:56:08Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > 😕 > Since when is a weapon of mass destruction a pipe bomb rather than CBRN? And teaching? Is [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=explosives%20engineering&index=blended) going to be these Hutarees cellmates? Or an M.I.T. professor who uses these books for their class? I don’t think too many people are spending $135.20 so they can have something to read on the beach. “Weapon of mass destruction” is defined much more broadly under the U.S. Code statutes on terrorism than the usual military use of the term. Under the U.S. Code Title 18 § 2332a: > [@](#): > > (c) Definitions.— For purposes of this section— > (2) the term “weapon of mass destruction” means— > (A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title; > (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors; > (C) any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178 of this title); or > (D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life; and > (3) the term “property” includes all real and personal property. The definition of “destructive device” under section 921: > [@](#): > > The term “destructive device” means— > (A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas— > (i) bomb, > (ii) grenade, > (iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, > (iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, > (v) mine, or > (vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses; > (B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and > (C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. As for as the teaching of the use of explosives charge, Digital Stimulus has it right - it must be intended to facilitate a Federal crime of violence. > [@](#): > > (2) Prohibition.— It shall be unlawful for any person— > (A) to teach or demonstrate the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute by any means information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, with the intent that the teaching, demonstration, or information be used for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence; or > > (B) to teach or demonstrate to any person the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute to any person, by any means, information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, knowing that such person intends to use the teaching, demonstration, or information for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/117 "2010-03-31T16:25:04Z")
Here’s a gigantic shockaroo–[the anti-government terrorists all demand public defenders](http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=10246957). Anybody wanna bet you can find at least one letter to the editor written by one of these guys complaining that the cops don’t respond fast enough to 911 calls? Cognitive dissonance, it’s a wonder their tiny heads don’t explode. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/118 "2010-03-31T16:46:39Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Here’s a gigantic shockaroo–[the anti-government terrorists all demand public defenders](http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=10246957). Anybody wanna bet you can find at least one letter to the editor written by one of these guys complaining that the cops don’t respond fast enough to 911 calls? Cognitive dissonance, it’s a wonder their tiny heads don’t explode. My God! It’s gotten so far so fast - Obama has even socialized the legal system! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/119 "2010-03-31T17:02:06Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > My God! It’s gotten so far so fast - Obama has even socialized the legal system! > > -Joe **snerk** 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/120 "2010-03-31T17:05:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Uhm, stretch much? > > These guys were going after local cops. I think the number of constituents who would support these guys is vanishingly small. Are you really that confident in predicting what the right wing will and won’t support or get all in a tizzy about these days? I certainly have lost the capacity to estimate the likelihood of the right to forsake reason, shame and accountability in their positions on any given topic, but especially those that involve religion and terrorism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239.md?page=7)