# Christian Militias. Just what we need... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239 "2010-03-29T19:05:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/121 "2010-03-31T17:44:42Z")
More in sorrow than in anger, they cannot condone these actions, even as they share any patriots horror at the socialization of America… ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/122 "2010-03-31T17:56:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe. But these guys are just soooooooo far out there, that I can’t see it being an issue. In the OP, I mentioned how it was reported that even the “normal” militia types (who are pretty far out there to begin with) didn’t want anything to do with these guys. Except the more reporting on the situation that appears to be less and less true. Journalists are finding on multiple occasions this group has trained and associated with other militia groups. The other groups certainly have reason to not want anything to do with them NOW. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/123 "2010-04-01T03:44:23Z")
According to what I just heard on CNN, these guys are a joke. Their “bombs” were glorified firecrackers. A gunpowder of some sort and a cardboard tubes. The undercover fed had to help them get that far. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/124 "2010-04-01T04:26:35Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Here’s a gigantic shockaroo–[the anti-government terrorists all demand public defenders](http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=10246957). Anybody wanna bet you can find at least one letter to the editor written by one of these guys complaining that the cops don’t respond fast enough to 911 calls? Cognitive dissonance, it’s a wonder their tiny heads don’t explode. I’m surprised no one’s come up with photos or videos of any of these idiots at a Tea Party. How could they have resisted going to one or more? I assume someone, somewhere, is looking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/125 "2010-04-01T13:05:45Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > According to what I just heard on CNN, these guys are a joke. Their “bombs” were glorified firecrackers. A gunpowder of some sort and a cardboard tubes. The undercover fed had to help them get that far. The Shoe bomber was a joke too. So were some of the Islamic “cells” arrested for plotting terrorism. Being a joke has never stopped the right wing from engaging in full on, melodramatic hysterics when the terrorists are Muslim, so why should it be any different for Christian Bubbas? ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/126 "2010-04-01T14:33:25Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Here’s a gigantic shockaroo–[the anti-government terrorists all demand public defenders](http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=10246957). Anybody wanna bet you can find at least one letter to the editor written by one of these guys complaining that the cops don’t respond fast enough to 911 calls? Cognitive dissonance, it’s a wonder their tiny heads don’t explode. I read the citation… but I don’t see any mention of public defenders. I was interested particularly because I am a public defender. A lot of our clients believe that we work for the Commonwealth’s Attorney (what we call our prosecutors in Virginia), and have nicknamed us, “public pretenders.” And these are your regular run-of-the-mill petty criminals. I can’t imagine these douchebags asking the courts to appoint them an attorney whose salary is even remotely subsidized by any government (like a private court-appointed attorney), let alone a state or federal employee. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/127 "2010-04-01T14:49:07Z")
Given the media coverage, I would expect a criminal/constitutional lawyer with a lot of experience would carry the ringleader’s file, with a view to increasing his or her firm’s profile. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/128 "2010-04-01T15:44:27Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > I read the citation… but I don’t see any mention of public defenders. I was interested particularly because I am a public defender. > > A lot of our clients believe that we work for the Commonwealth’s Attorney (what we call our prosecutors in Virginia), and have nicknamed us, “public pretenders.” And these are your regular run-of-the-mill petty criminals. I can’t imagine these douchebags asking the courts to appoint them an attorney whose salary is even remotely subsidized by any government (like a private court-appointed attorney), let alone a state or federal employee. If they ask for a court appointed attorney, that puts the lie to their claim of being against all governement “interference” and assistance, and to any claims that they want nothing from the government (except of course their unemployment, medicare, social security, help getting a gubmint job, etc etc etc). If they really want to play it to the hilt (the little guy standing up against the commies n libruls), they should refuse a court appointed attorney because gubmint is out to get 'em and they don’t trust this evil gubmint lawyer guy to represent them. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/129 "2010-04-01T17:39:41Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > \If they really want to play it to the hilt (the little guy standing up against the commies n libruls), they should refuse a court appointed attorney because gubmint is out to get 'em and they don’t trust this evil gubmint lawyer guy to represent them. No, no, no, you don’t get it. After they are found guilty and convicted, they can claim martyrdom and say that the gubmint railroaded them. In the unlikely case that they are acquitted, they can **still** claim that they are martyrs, but that through the help of courageous like-minded [del]Hyste[/del]Americans who stood up to the evil communazis, thay are still able to spread the Good Word. It’s a win-win situation 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/130 "2010-04-01T19:15:53Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > If they really want to play it to the hilt (the little guy standing up against the commies n libruls), they should refuse a court appointed attorney because gubmint is out to get 'em and they don’t trust this evil gubmint lawyer guy to represent them. In their favor, they are intelligent enough to not try to defend themselves. Does that ever go well for defendants? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/131 "2010-04-01T19:20:14Z")
Ted Bundy did it, and all he got was the chair. Of course, that’s all he \*could \*get, but still… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/132 "2010-04-01T19:30:19Z")
> [@](#): > > If they were tortured, they can take their torturers to court. Both the Bush and the Obama administrations have announced that any intelligence officers who tortured prisoners cannot be prosecuted as long as they were following orders. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/133 "2010-04-01T19:33:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The Shoe bomber was a joke too. So were some of the Islamic “cells” arrested for plotting terrorism. Being a joke has never stopped the right wing from engaging in full on, melodramatic hysterics when the terrorists are Muslim, so why should it be any different for Christian Bubbas? You forgot the clowns who set themselves alight at Glasgow airport and then got beat up by a parking attendant. ---
**Author:** ![maladroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@maladroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maladroit)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/134 "2010-04-01T19:39:15Z")
The Underpants Bomber comes to mind too. The stupid can still (especially?) be a danger to society. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/135 "2010-04-01T19:42:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ted Bundy did it, and all he got was the chair. Of course, that’s all he \*could \*get, but still… Stupid civilian legal system … ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/136 "2010-04-01T19:56:18Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > According to what I just heard on CNN, these guys are a joke. Their “bombs” were glorified firecrackers. A gunpowder of some sort and a cardboard tubes. The undercover fed had to help them get that far. So, in other words, they’re stupid, crazy, AND incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/137 "2010-04-01T20:01:54Z")
If they were Arabs, that would still be enough to raise the threat level to OMFG! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239/138 "2010-04-08T04:29:06Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > The charge of seditious conspiracy carries a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison; attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction carries a statutory maximum penalty of life in prison; teaching the use of explosives materials carriers a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison; and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence carries a mandatory minimum penalty of five years in prison. > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20100329/pl\_usnw/DC78082\_1](http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20100329/pl_usnw/DC78082_1) > Sooo, not exactly kid gloves. More like life. First, catch your rabbit. Or in this case, get a conviction for seditious conspiracy against them. That may prove difficult, if past experience dealing with right-wing extremists is any indication, as [Leonard Zeskind](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonard-zeskind/strongthe-hutaree-militia_b_519066.html) points out: [QUOTE=Leonard Zeskind] To win the first count, a charge of seditious conspiracy, however, prosecutors will need much more than a good witness. As I describe it in my book, _Blood and Politics: The History of the White Nationalist Movement from the Margins to the Mainstream_ (pp. 144 - 171), the federal government has never won a sedition case against militia-types, white supremacists, or neo-Nazis. Since World War One, they have won numerous seditious conspiracy cases against Puerto Rican independentistas, communists and others on the left. But no one on the radical right has ever been convicted of plotting to overthrow by force of arms the government of the United State of America. Not that federal prosecutors haven’t tried. During World War Two, two sets of indictments were brought against as many as thirty people with sympathies for the Axis powers. The first one was dropped shortly after it was made. A second set of charges were thrown out of court in 1943. Finally, in 1944, 28 leaders from the Silvershirts, the German-American Bund, the Defenders of the Christian Faith and other National Socialist types were brought to trial in Washington D.C. on charges of sedition. The trial ended after eight months, however, when the judge died. Neither the Roosevelt nor Truman administration re-tried the case. A second attempt occurred in 1988, when fourteen members of The Order, Aryan Nations, Posse Comitatus and the Covenant Sword and Arm of the Lord faced a mélange of charges – including seditious conspiracy. The three month trial in Ft. Smith, Arkansas ended in acquittals all around. Simply put, the federals had unbelievable witnesses, a jury with more sympathy for the white supremacists than the prosecutor, and an inept case from start to end. [/QUOTE] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-militias-just-what-we-need/534239.md?page=6)