# Christian Rep. of TX Leo Berman wants to abolish religious laws (what am I missing?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003 "2011-01-17T22:11:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/1 "2011-01-17T22:11:35Z")
Leo Berman is a Texas State Representative who once commented that “Barack Obama is God’s punishment on us…” at Glenn Beck’s “Taking Back America” rally. _(I mention this not to signal readers which “side” to take, but to illustrate his view of religion.)_ I just noticed that the Huffington Post [reported](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/14/leo-berman-texas-sharia-ban_n_809034.html) that he is seeking to ban “religious or cultural law” in Texas. I know he’s pushing it because he doesn’t want Islamic law to play a factor in the courts, but neither did I see any “Christian exception” in his [bill](http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/82R/billtext/html/HJ00057I.htm). Maybe I’m wildly misinformed, but I was under the impression that the foundation of the conservative culture wars is a particular flavor of Christian dogma. Is it possible he doesn’t understand how his bill, if passed into law, would undercut the footing his fellow conservatives have on so many hotly contested issues: reproductive rights, creationism, homosexual rights, stem-cell research just to name a few. Hell, isn’t the original reason liquor stores are closed on Sundays is because it’s the Lord’s day? If he gets his wish and this passes as-is, will longstanding laws rooted in Christian doctrine be subject to its scope? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/2 "2011-01-17T22:32:53Z")
I’m not that familiar with Texas politics. But one possibility that occurs to me is that he _expects_ his fellow Christian conservatives to shoot down the bill because it has no exemption for Christianity. He can then go home and tell his base that he tried to stop those evil Muslims, without the kinds of problems pushing through a bill with exceptions for Christians would have. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/3 "2011-01-17T22:51:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m not that familiar with Texas politics. But one possibility that occurs to me is that he _expects_ his fellow Christian conservatives to shoot down the bill because it has no exemption for Christianity. He can then go home and tell his base that he tried to stop those evil Muslims, without the kinds of problems pushing through a bill with exceptions for Christians would have. I don’t think Texas state representatives are smart enough to be that devious. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/4 "2011-01-17T22:51:44Z")
Well, this is a proposed amendment to be put to voter referendum. The Texas legislature could pass the bill and the buck (to the voters) at the same time. However, I’m not sure the wording of the proposed amendment passes muster (IANAL nor a Texas legal scholar). How would/could a court interpret a ‘cultural’ law? Aren’t all laws pretty much at least representative of the particular culture which carries them? For that matter, what makes a ‘religious’ law? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/5 "2011-01-17T22:56:11Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > reproductive rights, creationism, homosexual rights, stem-cell research just to name a few. _embryonic_ stem-cell research. Not stem-cell research in general. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/6 "2011-01-17T23:09:15Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > How would/could a court interpret a ‘cultural’ law? Aren’t all laws pretty much at least representative of the particular culture which carries them? For that matter, what makes a ‘religious’ law? IIRC, the “seed of truth” in the silly sharia law scare is that some contracts between members of the same religious groups agree to use mediation remedies inspired by the groups religious codes. I believe orthodox Jewish groups are actually the most common case of this in the US, but it exists amongst Muslim immigrants as well. So in that contracts are enforced by the courts, the court can find itself “interpreting religious laws”. But its silly, since a) Muslims aren’t the only utilizers of this type of contract, b) as long as all parties agree to the terms, there isn’t really any reason to forbid it and c) the parts of Sharia law used in these contracts are pretty uncontroversial. You can’t contract to do something illegal, so no ones going to be legally bound to submit to being stoned if the commit adultery, for example. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/7 "2011-01-17T23:40:55Z")
Another component of these types of legislative proposals (didn’t a neighboring state pass one lately, too?) is preventing courts from “using foreign law” which is really just bringing up other legal sources or practices as reference, analogy or example: e.g. quoting the UN Declaration of Rights, making a reference to how every other major developed democracy has approved or repealed X Y or Z, which AFAIK no US court ever uses as an actual _basis for their decisions_ but it still ticks off some people. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/8 "2011-01-17T23:42:37Z")
> [@](#): > > …legally bound to submit to being stoned if the commit adultery… Wait a second, if I want to get stoned, I have to commit adultery first? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/9 "2011-01-18T00:14:56Z")
At least in your heart. So tune the TV to Skinemax before you toke up. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/10 "2011-01-18T00:19:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait a second, if I want to get stoned, I have to commit adultery first? id rather move to california and get a medical pot permit than move to texas and screw around on mraru…😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/11 "2011-01-18T01:40:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait a second, if I want to get stoned, I have to commit adultery first? No, just say the word “Jehovah” in a public place…oops! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/12 "2011-01-18T02:12:12Z")
Meh, just a guy who paranoid about Sharia but doesn’t want to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/13 "2011-01-18T02:19:52Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > …as long as all parties agree to the terms, there isn’t really any reason to forbid it… All parties to racist or anti-Semitic restrictive covenants in real estate deals agreed to their terms in the bad old days, and they are properly illegal today, as William H. Rehnquist was chagrined to realize in his Senate confirmation hearings. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/14 "2011-01-18T02:23:28Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > All parties to racist or anti-Semitic restrictive covenants in real estate deals agreed to their terms in the bad old days, and they are properly illegal today, as William H. Rehnquist was chagrined to realize in his Senate confirmation hearings. Umm…OK, see c) in the post you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/15 "2011-01-18T02:31:01Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > All parties to racist or anti-Semitic restrictive covenants in real estate deals agreed to their terms in the bad old days, and they are properly illegal today, as William H. Rehnquist was chagrined to realize in his Senate confirmation hearings. I presume the Jews and black people didn’t agree to the terms. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/16 "2011-01-18T02:58:40Z")
**Simplicio** , they were indeed “pretty uncontroversial” at the time. But I don’t know of anyone today who, looking back, thinks it was a good thing we let them take root and become relatively common back then. **RNATB** , Jews and black people weren’t _parties_ to those contracts - they were kept out of neighborhoods by them. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/17 "2011-01-18T03:20:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait a second, if I want to get stoned, I have to commit adultery first? You would not feel so all _alone_… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/18 "2011-01-18T03:38:14Z")
How many blue laws are still on the books in Texas? Does Texas have any laws that regulate liquor sales specific to Sunday? This could be fun. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/19 "2011-01-18T09:04:33Z")
oooooooooo! yes! The law currently prohibits liquor sales on Sunday, and beer and wine can only be purchased after noon. Car sales are prohibited, too (we can buy non-food items such as pantyhose on Sun. now, though). Gimme a beer, this could work out well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003/20 "2011-01-18T11:24:27Z")
This new law specifically states that courts will uphold “laws of this state”, therefore all blue laws, etc. are perfectly safe. It’s only those religious/cultural laws that are not identical to state/federal law that would be affected. Since Texas is a good Christian state, it’s state laws are proudly based on Christian beliefs, and state laws are protected under the resolution. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-rep-of-tx-leo-berman-wants-to-abolish-religious-laws-what-am-i-missing/568003.md?page=2)