# Christian School Textbook Claims Loch Ness Monster Disproves Evolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390 "2012-06-26T21:35:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/1 "2012-06-26T21:35:55Z")
You cannot make this stuff up! Reports in various media show that one of the biology texts for the Accelerated Christian Education claims that the Loch Ness Monster exists, is a plesiosaur, and that this is evidence that Creationism is correct and evolution is invalid. Also, that Japanese fishermen caught a dinosaur years ago. [Read it and weep … with laughter.](http://www.salon.com/2012/06/19/shocking_christian_school_textbooks_salpart/singleton/) Now what brings this into Great Debates territory instead of just point 'n laugh territory is that some of the private Christian schools in Louisiana that carries this piece of shit excuse for a textbook, are expecting to receive school voucher funds … i.e., tax funds diverted from public schools to private schools … so their student can learns this SHIT excuse for SCIENCE. Now we see what school vouchers are REALLY about … getting kids brainwashed and funding butt-ignorant religious fanatics to scrawl their weird fantasies and have them passed off as textbooks. Yeah, it’s about choice … but if I were a taxpayer in Louisiana, I’d be steamed red as any crawfish in a kettle at this pathetic use of my taxes. Voucher advocates, go hide your heads in shame, you have promoted the spreading of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/2 "2012-06-26T22:02:06Z")
Not only is it silly to believe in Nessie, I can’t imagine it doing anything but supporting evolution. It’s like bringing up the [coelacanth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth) as evidence against evolution. Really?? “Here’s a living dinosaur, which used to be plentiful on earth millions of years ago but is no longer, due to a catastrophic extinction event and the eventual rise of us mammals. And that’s why Genesis is historical fact.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/3 "2012-06-26T22:18:16Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Not only is it silly to believe in Nessie, I can’t imagine it doing anything but supporting evolution. It’s like bringing up the [coelacanth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth) as evidence against evolution. Really?? > > “Here’s a living dinosaur, which used to be plentiful on earth millions of years ago but is no longer, due to a catastrophic extinction event and the eventual rise of us mammals. And that’s why Genesis is historical fact.” :smack: This particular variant of Creationism, Young Earth Creationism, does not accept that the world is older than about 6,000 years, I believe. And that human and dinosaurs were contemporaries. And so the existence of Nessie (sigh) is proof that dinosaurs and men were contemporaries. The stupid, it just keeps burning! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/4 "2012-06-26T22:19:11Z")
I don’t think it should be the government’s business to subsidize or support religous dogmas, superstitions, heresies, or ridiculous fantasies/fabrications/stupidity/lies. No vouchers, no subsidies, no funds. ONLY pointing and laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/5 "2012-06-26T22:29:33Z")
So what’s the debate here? I can’t see one emerging. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/6 "2012-06-26T22:38:56Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > So what’s the debate here? I can’t see one emerging. I said that this text was being used in schools that had school voucher students, and that thus our tax money is being used to spread ignorance through the school voucher program. And I invite any school voucher advocates to defend the program against these charges. I do no know how they will make a defense, but some Dopers would seem comfortable defending mass-murdering cannibals. If the mods wish to move this to IMHO or the Pit where it may simply serve as point n laugh fodder, I will understand. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/7 "2012-06-26T22:42:38Z")
They’re just teaching the controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/8 "2012-06-26T22:49:07Z")
One of my co-workers constantly rants: \*They won’t teach creationism in schools, but they’ll teach global warming as if it were real. \* ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/9 "2012-06-26T22:55:50Z")
Hmmm. Your cite only offers proof that this is being taught in schools in the UK: > [@](#): > > Is the text still in use today? The answer is yes, according to U.K. critic Jonny Scaramanga, who was raised on the ACE curriculum and now runs a blog titled “Leaving Fundamentalism: Examining Christian Fundamentalism in The UK”. > > In a popular post titled Top 5 Lies Taught By Accelerated Christian Education, Scaramanga states, “I called ACE [Accelerated Christian Education] on May 3rd, 2012, and was told that all of these PACEs are still in print and the content has not changed. These lies are still being taught in over fifty British schools today.” There is some indirect evidence that this is being taught in the Louisiana school, but nothing direct. That being said, I think that any schools receiving government voucher money should have to meet minimum curriculum standards, one of which would be the teaching of Darwin’s theory of evolution and the exclusion of creationism from science classes. However, since religious schools typically teach religion as a separate subject, I’m not really sure how you deal with that. My sense is that as long as the vouchers can be used at any school, religious or otherwise, and as long as the bulk of the education is non-religious in nature, then the Lemon test says it’s OK. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/10 "2012-06-26T23:09:29Z")
From the school in question’s web site: > [@](#): > > MISSION STATEMENT > > WE STRIVE TO PROVIDE A QUALITY EDUCATION FOR STUDENTS OF ALL AGES AND VARYING ABLITIES . WE WORK TO EMPOWER THEM BY OFFERING A > QUALITY FAITH BASED CURRICULUM THAT IS SOLEY BASED ON PRINCIPLES FROM THE BIBLE, AT A LOW TO MODERATE COST Emphasis added. While not completely incriminating, that would strongly imply that religion was a primary aspect of the curriculum at the school, and that would not pass the Lemon test. But a court case would have to look at the actual details of the curriculum and not just some fuzzy wording in the school’s mission statement. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/11 "2012-06-26T23:25:51Z")
Sorry for the multiple posts, but my position on this is “evolving”. (How’s that for a meta pun! 🙂 ) [Relavent SCOTUS ruling.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelman_v._Simmons-Harris) > [@](#): > > Under the Private Choice Test developed by the court, for a voucher program to be constitutional it must meet all of the following criteria: > the program must have a valid secular purpose, > aid must go to parents and not to the schools, > a broad class of beneficiaries must be covered, > the program must be neutral with respect to religion, and > there must be adequate nonreligious options. > The court ruled that the Ohio program met the five-part test in that 1) the valid secular purpose of the program was “providing educational assistance to poor children in a demonstrably failing public school system”, 2) the vouchers were given to the parents, 3) the “broad class” was all students enrolled in currently failing programs, 4) parents who received vouchers were not required to enroll in a religious-based school, and 5) there were other public schools in adjoining districts, as well as non-sectarian private schools in the Cleveland area, available that would accept vouchers. > Chief Justice Rehnquist, writing for the majority, stated that “The incidental advancement of a religious mission, or the perceived endorsement of a religious message, is reasonably attributable to the individual aid recipients not the government, whose role ends with the disbursement of benefits.” They found that, in theory, there is no need for parents to use religious schools, and so long as the law does not especially encourage the use of vouchers for religious schools, the fact that most parents do choose parochial schools is irrelevant. So, it looks like everything is A-OK in LA. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/12 "2012-06-26T23:43:28Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > One of my co-workers constantly rants: \*They won’t teach creationism in schools, but they’ll teach global warming as if it were real. \* On the other hand, one big open secret is that a good number of protestants do not have a beef with science, several actually have a beef with politicians that are constantly attempting to twist the science to match the policies that they want to follow. [http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=14084](http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=14084) > [@](#): > > Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.) issued a report that said, “Over 700 dissenting scientists … from around the globe challenged man-made global warming claims made by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and former Vice President Al Gore.” > > Calling it a “groundbreaking report,” the document said, “The over 700 dissenting scientists are more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.” > > “This Senate report is not a ‘list’ of scientists, but a report that includes full biographies of each scientist and their quotes, papers and links for further reading,” said the document, dated March 2009. “The distinguished scientists featured in this new report are experts in diverse fields.” > > One of the listed prominent scientists is Chris Allen, who holds no college degree, believes in creationism and belongs to a Southern Baptist church. > > Allen is a weatherman at the FOX-affiliated TV station in Bowling Green, Ky. > [@](#): > > Remember than what gets Inhofe into trouble is not what he doesn’t know, but what he thinks he knows that just isn’t so. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/13 "2012-06-26T23:43:43Z")
Here’s what I tell myself: My children will be competing with other children who believe in dragons. My kids will be millionaires for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/14 "2012-06-26T23:51:55Z")
> [@Victor\_Charlie](#): > > Here’s what I tell myself: My children will be competing with other children who believe in dragons. My kids will be millionaires for sure. America seems to be full of people with wacky beliefs and loads of money. Some of them have been presidents. Then there’s Donald Trump. It seems to help plenty of people in the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/15 "2012-06-26T23:57:28Z")
> [@](#): > > MISSION STATEMENT > > WE STRIVE TO PROVIDE A QUALITY EDUCATION FOR STUDENTS OF ALL AGES AND VARYING ABLITIES . WE WORK TO EMPOWER THEM BY OFFERING A > QUALITY FAITH BASED CURRICULUM THAT IS SOLEY BASED ON PRINCIPLES FROM THE BIBLE, AT A LOW TO MODERATE COST Wait, Nessie is a principle from the Bible? Because they are basing their curriculum, in part at least, on Nessie. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/16 "2012-06-27T00:07:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, Nessie is a principle from the Bible? Because they are basing their curriculum, in part at least, on Nessie. There are all kinds of references to beasts of mythical sorts in the Bible. However, it’s unclear to me how a dinosaur discovered living today would disprove evolution or prove creationism. We find animals all the time that we thought were extinct. It isn’t like evolution lives or dies on the extinction of dinosaurs. And surely Christian Creationists realize that some species have gone extinct. The fact that one might not have is neither here nor there. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/17 "2012-06-27T00:18:09Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > America seems to be full of people with wacky beliefs and loads of money. Some of them have been presidents. Then there’s Donald Trump. It seems to help plenty of people in the Republican Party. I’m just looking for some kind of silver lining. There are certainly plenty of obscenely rich Bible thumpers, but a whole lot of them were born into it. The theory (wishful thinking?) I operate under is that self-made people have to be better critical thinkers to get ahead. That’s what I tell myself, anyway. As whacko as Donald Trump may be, I’m pretty sure he knows that humans didn’t keep cute, purple mini-brontos as pets. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/18 "2012-06-27T00:43:41Z")
> [@Victor\_Charlie](#): > > As whacko as Donald Trump may be, I’m pretty sure he knows that humans didn’t keep cute, purple mini-brontos as pets. Fair to say. You’re probably OK while your billionaires can still tell the difference between reality and The Flintstones. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/19 "2012-06-27T04:33:40Z")
Also, a plesiosaur isn’t a dinosaur, it’s a marine reptile. They really need to check their facts! ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/20 "2012-06-27T04:34:29Z")
[quote=“Evil\_Captor, post:1, topic:626390”] You cannot make this stuff up! Reports in various media show that one of the biology texts for the Accelerated Christian Education claims that the Loch Ness Monster exists, is a plesiosaur, and that this is evidence that Creationism is correct and evolution is invalid. Also, that Japanese fishermen caught a dinosaur years ago. > [@](#): > > [Read it and weep … with laughter.](http://www.salon.com/2012/06/19/shocking_christian_school_textbooks_salpart/singleton/) > > Now what brings this into Great Debates territory instead of just point 'n laugh territory is that some of the private Christian schools in Louisiana that carries this piece of shit excuse for a textbook, are expecting to receive school voucher funds … i.e., tax funds diverted from public schools to private schools … so their student can learns this SHIT excuse for SCIENCE. If you actually read the article that you link to, you’ll see that it doesn’t actually say that any school in Louisiana uses, or is planning to use, this textbook. > [@Evil Captor](#): > > You cannot make this stuff up! You just did make this stuff up. > [@Evil Captor](#): > > Now we see what school vouchers are REALLY about … getting kids brainwashed and funding butt-ignorant religious fanatics to scrawl their weird fantasies and have them passed off as textbooks. Please provide a cite to back up this claim. > [@](#): > > Voucher advocates, go hide your heads in shame, you have promoted the spreading of ignorance. Somebody should be hanging–not “hiding”–his head in shame. It isn’t voucher advocates. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390.md?page=2)