# Christian School Textbook Claims Loch Ness Monster Disproves Evolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390 "2012-06-26T21:35:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/21 "2012-06-27T05:01:51Z")
Some of the beliefs don’t make any sense-like denouncing solar fusion-what does that have to do with evolution? 😕 But some of the stuff manage to sound very PCish: > [@](#): > > South Africa’s apartheid policy encouraged whites, Blacks, Coloureds, and Asians to develop their own independent ways of life. Separate living area and schools made it possible for each group to maintain and pass on their culture and heritage to their children.” ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/22 "2012-06-27T05:25:08Z")
Here’s another article from NY Daily News: [http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1102340](http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1102340) From the article: > [@](#): > > “Have you heard of the ‘Loch Ness Monster’ in Scotland? ‘Nessie’ for short has been recorded on sonar from a small submarine, described by eyewitnesses, and photographed by others. Nessie appears to be a plesiosaur.” > Some Christian schools eligible for vouchers are also reportedly teaching “Bible-based math,” which doesn’t include modern theories. Yep, moonshine and the bible-- Well, they DID have a flood. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/23 "2012-06-27T06:45:04Z")
It seems to me that the entire controversy in scientific education centers upon biology, geology, and less so it seems in astronomy, whereas physics, chemistry, and computer science are much less controversial. I can’t see a literal creationist teaching physics, chemistry, and computer science any differently from a radical atheist, or a mainstream American teacher who might be personally religious but doesn’t want to teach religious views in school. I think it would be fair to require people in voucher schools to take a standardized test on biology and geology as our current scientific knowledge says is correct, and require that in order to graduate from those institutions, in exchange for their liberty to teach these subjects the way they wish to. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/24 "2012-06-27T07:03:21Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > I think it would be fair to require people in voucher schools to take a standardized test on biology and geology as our current scientific knowledge says is correct, and require that in order to graduate from those institutions, in exchange for their liberty to teach these subjects the way they wish to. One thing that you’ll never see **Evil Captor** or other voucher opponents do is link to actual information about test scores in public schools. The reason for this is simple. [The results are embarrassingly bad](http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2012/05/10/31naep_ep.h31.html). > [@](#): > > Fewer than one-third of American 8th graders are proficient in science If **Evil Captor** or others like him actually care about teaching our kids science, why don’t they ever complain about the lousy results in public schools? inquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/25 "2012-06-27T10:08:18Z")
> [@qin shi huangdi](#): > > some of the beliefs don’t make any sense-like denouncing solar fusion-what does that have to do with evolution? 😕 > > But some of the stuff manage to sound very pcish: You. Are. Kidding. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/26 "2012-06-27T10:29:26Z")
Yeah, the PC brigade have always been all about “separate but equal”. _In Bizarro World._ ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/27 "2012-06-27T10:43:11Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > If **Evil Captor** or others like him actually care about teaching our kids science, why don’t they ever complain about the lousy results in public schools? inquiring minds want to know! At least in my opinion, the whole creationism thing is just a bit of a sideline to the real issue of vouchers: that the way to solve problems in pubic schools is to invest in the schools themselves and cutting funding while siphoning off the best and brightest (and also those with the most religious parents) to private schools is only going to make things much, much worse. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/28 "2012-06-27T11:57:13Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > You. Are. Kidding. Right? I think he’s using P.C. to mean that they are covering up their raw bigotry with superficially acceptable rationales. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/29 "2012-06-27T12:07:20Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Some of the beliefs don’t make any sense-like denouncing solar fusion-what does that have to do with evolution? 😕 Solar fusion is the only way for the sun to be very old. It’s a young-universe argument. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/30 "2012-06-27T13:34:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I think he’s using P.C. to mean that they are covering up their raw bigotry with superficially acceptable rationales. I bet he isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/31 "2012-06-27T13:47:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Some of the beliefs don’t make any sense-like denouncing solar fusion-what does that have to do with evolution? 😕 > > South Africa’s apartheid policy encouraged whites, Blacks, Coloureds, and Asians to develop their own independent ways of life. Separate living area and schools made it possible for each group to maintain and pass on their culture and heritage to their children.” > > But some of the stuff manage to sound very PCish: Is that seriously the thrust of their position on apartheid? No mention of riots, oppression and attack dogs? This make it sound lovely. It’s similar to how mouth-breathers in the '50s and '60s justified segregation. Of course, it should be of no surprise given the states involved. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/32 "2012-06-27T13:49:24Z")
\*\* ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/33 "2012-06-27T14:09:47Z")
ENOUGH! The purported topic of this “debate” involved limits or directions on education supported by vouchers. All the other byplay is a mixture of BBQ Pit or MPSIMS fodder. If the extraneous stuff continues, the thread will be moved from GD. **Evil Captor** , if you would like to debate a topic, don’t post a Pit rant as the OP. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/34 "2012-06-27T14:10:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You cannot make this stuff up! Reports in various media show that one of the biology texts for the Accelerated Christian Education claims that the Loch Ness Monster exists, is a plesiosaur, and that this is evidence that Creationism is correct and evolution is invalid. Also, that Japanese fishermen caught a dinosaur years ago. 😕 What the . . . Oh! I get it! The ignorant fools think the Loch Ness Monster is from **this** planet! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/35 "2012-06-27T14:18:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > ENOUGH! > > The purported topic of this “debate” involved limits or directions on education supported by vouchers. All the other byplay is a mixture of BBQ Pit or MPSIMS fodder. > > If the extraneous stuff continues, the thread will be moved from GD. > > **Evil Captor** , if you would like to debate a topic, don’t post a Pit rant as the OP. > > [/Moderating] May I direct your attention to post #6? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/36 "2012-06-27T14:26:50Z")
[quote=“ITR\_champion, post:20, topic:626390”] > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > If you actually read the article that you link to, you’ll see that it doesn’t actually say that any school in Louisiana uses, or is planning to use, this textbook. Actually, it does. The lead paragraph sets up the general way in which vouchers will be used and points out that some schools use this textbook. In a subsequent paragraph, a specific school that uses the ACE curriculum and expects to recieve many voucher students, is named: Eternity Christian Academy in Westlake, La. I imagine now that the pointing and laughing has begun, the academy may quietly shift to another, less controversial curriculum. But we shall see. > [@](#): > > You just did make this stuff up. Are you saying that the curriculum does not exist? > [@](#): > > Please provide a cite to back up this claim. Points to OP. > [@](#): > > Somebody should be hanging–not “hiding”–his head in shame. It isn’t voucher advocates. Sure, it’s voucher advocates. The rails are greased for taxpayer dollars to be used for this kind of stupid shit, thanks to vouchers. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/37 "2012-06-27T14:28:03Z")
**Evil Captor** : Do you intend to come back and defend your thesis? I cited the SCOTUS case, above, and we can argue about whether it was decided properly, but can you at least admit that you were wrong in thinking that this program is someone unconstitutional, per current jurisprudence? I’m wondering why you aren’t making the same argument many made about contraception. That the money was compensation to employees who bought insurance on their own-- ie, the Church wasn’t buying the insurance directly. Here, too, the money goes to parents who then choose how to spend it. I’m not sure this is any different from someone who receives an Earned Income Tax Credit, and who then donates some of that money to the Westboro Baptists Church. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/38 "2012-06-27T14:30:29Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > ENOUGH! > > The purported topic of this “debate” involved limits or directions on education supported by vouchers. All the other byplay is a mixture of BBQ Pit or MPSIMS fodder. > > If the extraneous stuff continues, the thread will be moved from GD. > > **Evil Captor** , if you would like to debate a topic, don’t post a Pit rant as the OP. > > [/Moderating] You’re right, the OP was not well phrased. I would say the topic is that vouchers are going to allow taxpayer monies to be spent on schools that use curriculums that have not been vetted by knowledgeable people. Or in the case of the ACE curriculum, by grown-ups. And that this is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/39 "2012-06-27T14:33:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Evil Captor** : Do you intend to come back and defend your thesis? I cited the SCOTUS case, above, and we can argue about whether it was decided properly, but can you at least admit that you were wrong in thinking that this program is someone unconstitutional, per current jurisprudence? > > I’m wondering why you aren’t making the same argument many made about contraception. That the money was compensation to employees who bought insurance on their own-- ie, the Church wasn’t buying the insurance directly. Here, too, the money goes to parents who then choose how to spend it. I’m not sure this is any different from someone who receives an Earned Income Tax Credit, and who then donates some of that money to the Westboro Baptists Church. My thesis is more along the line that the lack of oversight of private schools means that taxpayer monies can and will be used to fund some very whackadoodle excuses for education, the ACE curriculum being a case in point. Is it your contention that taxpayer money should be used to fund just any garbage that calls itself a curriculum, as a matter of Constitutional rights? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390/40 "2012-06-27T14:41:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > My thesis is more along the line that the lack of oversight of private schools means that taxpayer monies can and will be used to fund some very whackadoodle excuses for education, the ACE curriculum being a case in point. Is it your contention that taxpayer money should be used to fund just any garbage that calls itself a curriculum, as a matter of Constitutional rights? Personally, yes. I think local taxes going to local schools should be managed by the parents in such a way that their children are getting the education they think is best for them. If the fine people of Louisiana want this, great. That’s one reason I don’t live there. As a matter of current policy, given everything else we do, I wouldn’t have a problem with the state (not the federal government, but the state) requiring minimum curriculum standards to be met for the schools to participate in such a system. This, however, is a matter of legislative action, not a matter for the courts, which have already spoken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-school-textbook-claims-loch-ness-monster-disproves-evolution/626390.md?page=3)