# Christian sues US Postal Service over Sunday work shifts **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191 "2020-02-19T19:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/1 "2020-02-19T19:42:03Z")
[AP story here](https://apnews.com/26d9b774d127255363a970fde698822d): > [@](#): > > Gerald Groff, who says he is an evangelical Christian, filed a lawsuit Friday against the federal agency, claiming he was let go from his position after refusing to work on Sundays for religious reasons. > > The federal lawsuit claims Groff worked “flexibly” to accommodate his convictions by offering to pick up holiday, evening and Saturday hours that others did not want to work. > > Groff, who worked for the Postal Service for seven years, said the agency began enforcing a no-exceptions Sunday policy on him and “needlessly disciplined him,” according to a statement released by his defense Monday. The disciplinary methods included suspensions as long as two weeks. > > The statement said he was eventually let go from his position. > > “In a free and respectful society, government should recognize those differences among us that make us great, rather than punishing those differences, particularly when those differences result from our sincerely held religious beliefs,” said David Crossett, one of the attorneys representing Groff. Here’s the relief being sought: > [@](#): > > The lawsuit is seeking reinstatement of Groff’s position with accommodation, back pay and unspecified compensation for emotional distress. The complaint also requests for the agency to create policies that provide equal employment opportunities for religious observance of Sabbath on Sundays. And lest anyone forgets, the article reminds us: > [@](#): > > The Postal Service is an independent government agency that does not use taxpayer money for its operations. Will Mr. Groff prevail or fail? How and why? And which way would you prefer to see this case resolved? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/2 "2020-02-19T19:44:59Z")
My non-lawyer self would prefer that this be bounced right out of court as ridiculous. The door would be open to any number of impossible-to-accomodate “religious” “needs”. But I can’t rule out a self-serving judiciary determined to ensure that religions get more “outs” than non-religion and that their religion gets the most of all, so I have no idea how this will ultimately be decided. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/3 "2020-02-19T19:55:46Z")
Why should only Sunday sabbaths get protection? Why not all sabbaths? And, hey - he presumably was informed that working Sunday was required for the job when he applied. If his religious requirements changed such that he could no longer meet the job requirements then he should get a different job. Or a different religion. No one is forcing him to work on Sundays. Nor should he be able to force an employer that needs people to work on Sundays to employ him. There are many workplaces that will never ask him to work on a Sunday, perhaps he should apply to one. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/4 "2020-02-19T20:06:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Will Mr. Groff prevail or fail? How and why? And which way would you prefer to see this case resolved? There is some precedent under Title VII case law. _Ansonia Board of Education v. Philbrook_, 479 U.S. 60 (1986); _Trans World Airlines, Inc. v. Hardison_ 432 U.S. 63 (1977). The standard that applies to private companies is based on Congress’s powers to enforce the 14th amendment, and requires that employers show they would face an _undue hardship_ if they accommodated the employee’s requests. As to what constitutes an _undue hardship_, the guideline is _de minimis_, or the minimal amount. For example, having to pay other workers overtime to cover for the employee requesting accommodation counts as an undue hardship. There is an additional First Amendment angle that could show up in this case because the USPS is a federal agency. But I highly doubt that will go anywhere; historically, the post office delivered mail on Sundays. It would actually be a violation of the First Amendment if the post office were closed on Sundays _for religious reasons_ - if I remember correctly, it was the telegram and six-day workweek movement that closed the post office on Sundays. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/5 "2020-02-19T20:07:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Why should only Sunday sabbaths get protection? Why not all sabbaths? > > And, hey - he presumably was informed that working Sunday was required for the job when he applied. If his religious requirements changed such that he could no longer meet the job requirements then he should get a different job. Or a different religion. > > No one is forcing him to work on Sundays. Nor should he be able to force an employer that needs people to work on Sundays to employ him. There are many workplaces that will never ask him to work on a Sunday, perhaps he should apply to one. There was no Sunday requirement when he applied, but that doesn’t mean the Post Office doesn’t have a right to require employee to share in the Sunday shifts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/6 "2020-02-19T20:10:19Z")
Seems like an easy win for the plaintiff, to me. Isn’t it pretty much settled law that businesses have to make reasonable accommodations for religious requirements? There’s six other days of the week Groff could be assigned hours. Why was it so hard to accommodate this request? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/7 "2020-02-19T20:15:57Z")
Who says sabbaths must be a single day? I hereby declare my sabbath to be Monday thru Friday, every week! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/8 "2020-02-19T20:20:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Seems like an easy win for the plaintiff, to me. Isn’t it pretty much settled law that businesses have to make reasonable accommodations for religious requirements? There’s six other days of the week Groff could be assigned hours. Why was it so hard to accommodate this request? I can’t pass judgement without hearing the post office’s side. The requirement is not that the employer comply with an employee’s reasonable request so long as there is no undue hardship - it is possible that the employer offered their own reasonable accommodation and the employee refused it, in which case the employer has met their obligation. Supra, _Ansonia_. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/9 "2020-02-19T20:27:01Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I can’t pass judgement without hearing the post office’s side. The requirement is not that the employer comply with an employee’s reasonable request so long as there is no undue hardship - it is possible that the employer offered their own reasonable accommodation and the employee refused it, in which case the employer has met their obligation. Supra, _Ansonia_. > > ~Max Yeah, I’m wondering what the defense is going to be, since this otherwise seems like a slam dunk for Groff. It seems likely that there’s something we don’t know that casts his claim in a different light, but maybe it’s just one PO manager being an unreasonable dick? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/10 "2020-02-19T20:39:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, I’m wondering what the defense is going to be, since this otherwise seems like a slam dunk for Groff. It seems likely that there’s something we don’t know that casts his claim in a different light, but maybe it’s just one PO manager being an unreasonable dick? In Trans World Airlines, there was a union-negotiated “seniority system” in place that prevented the employer from swapping shifts to accommodate a junior employee’s sabbath day without consent of the other (senior) employee. No consent could be found and it was held that violating that seniority system amounts to an undue burden. Perhaps there is something similar with postal workers? I don’t know. The other two alternatives struck down in Trans World were 1) paying other workers overtime to cover for the employee requesting sabbath day off, and 2) keeping the employee on with a four day work week and letting the business suffer for lack of personnel. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/11 "2020-02-19T20:41:08Z")
As a Christian, that’s idiotic. The dude knew when he signed on that the job included Sundays. Even if he was told they’d TRY to be flexible, that implies they will not always be. It’s not his right to avoid ever working on a Sunday. I worked food service and other menial jobs for years. I worked Sundays very, very often. If he wants them so bad, he can find a job that ISN’T the friggin’ post office. Good grief. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/12 "2020-02-19T20:41:41Z")
Groff’s “reasonable accommodation” is to demand that other people with the same religion as him be required to work on Sundays in his place. You don’t seriously think that the Post Office has enough non-Christian employees to handle the entire Sunday workload, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/13 "2020-02-19T20:44:05Z")
I’m kind of curious: which Christian denomination has as one of its tenets that followers cannot work on Sunday? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/14 "2020-02-19T20:44:30Z")
I think a lot would depend on the requirements when he took the job. I don’t believe Sunday delivery was a thing, or if he had a agreement not to work Sundays, either one would get that point. Then if the PO could reasonably accommodate his request and not have him work on Sundays, I think he has a good shot at it. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/15 "2020-02-19T20:47:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Groff’s “reasonable accommodation” is to demand that other people with the same religion as him be required to work on Sundays in his place. You don’t seriously think that the Post Office has enough non-Christian employees to handle the entire Sunday workload, do you? If a coworker volunteered to swap shifts I think the USPS would be way in the wrong. But I also think the AP would have published a statement like this, “Mr. Groff’s coworker Joe Schmoe hates Mondays, and together they asked USPS to swap Joe’s Monday shift with Gerald’s Sunday shift. USPS refused this accommodation, and offered no comment or explanation.” ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/16 "2020-02-19T21:00:37Z")
Sundays have got to be a pretty slow day at the post office. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/17 "2020-02-19T21:27:47Z")
I imagine every Christian there would love to have Sundays off as well. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/18 "2020-02-19T21:32:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m kind of curious: which Christian denomination has as one of its tenets that followers cannot work on Sunday? Christianity in general regards Sunday (as a Sabbath) to be a day to be devoted to worship, and refrain from servile work. How rigorously this is followed depends on the denomination. As I recall, growing up Roman Catholic, you were supposed to refrain from work on Sunday if you could. However, if you had a job that required you to work on Sunday that wasn’t a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/19 "2020-02-19T21:38:35Z")
There’s places like where I work, which run 24/7. If you can’t work a particular day (and we do have people who put Sunday off limits due to church) then that’s OK… but certain positions require that you be available certain days and times. If you aren’t available those days and times you can’t hold those positions although numerous other positions are open to you. If you get religion and say “nope, can’t work the Sabbath” then if that is incompatible with your present position you may have to switch to another. Likewise, if you’re not available at night then you can not be 3rd shift manager (as an example). As noted - if the employer attempted an accommodation and it was refused then the employer may well be in the clear. Funny how we almost always here only one side of these things, hmm? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191/20 "2020-02-19T21:52:40Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Sundays have got to be a pretty slow day at the post office. I believe the USPS in many areas have recently added Sunday package delivery to accommodate the surge in online shopping. That’s one area that sets them apart from UPS and FedEx ground. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christian-sues-us-postal-service-over-sunday-work-shifts/848191.md?page=2)