# Christianism : sin in peace? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2001, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457 "2001-09-09T00:47:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/21 "2001-09-09T06:42:29Z")
The characterization of Christians getting their “sin ticket” punched on Sunday, and happily going out raping and looting on Monday ignores a rather important part of Christian faith. I know that there are lots of Christians who earn contempt from any decent person by their acts, and don’t wish to discuss them, or their sins. But let me take the example of weakness and temptation, and habit, as elements of sin. I have a habit. I have it because doing that is pleasurable to me, and I am very weak in my spiritual strength with dealing with that temptation. I know it is sinful to do it. I do it anyway. I delude myself by not thinking of the Lord while I am doing it. (See, He might not be paying attention, right? Right.) I feel guilt. I ask forgiveness. I actually ask. I address the words to My Lord, Jesus. It is not a ceremony; it is a personal conversation. I do it for one reason, and only one reason. Surprise, the reason is not so that I can get into heaven. The reason is, I love Him. I know He loves me, and I know that my sin hurts Him. The ritualistic view of confession leaves out that part. I am not “doing a lap on the beads” to get a ticket to heaven. I am trying to overcome my own human failing because I want to make myself less unworthy of Divine Love. I have to ask over and over, because I am a schmuck. It works over and over, because He is the Lord of the universe. ## Tris “Cabbage: A familiar kitchen-garden vegetable about as large and wise as a man’s head.” ~ Ambrose Bierce ~ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/22 "2001-09-09T09:23:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sterra \* > > {snip} > > > [@](#): > > > > Please don’t confuse Jack Chick with Christianity in general. > > That is what I have seen of christanity in general on the SDMB. Well not the burn in hell part. Just that the thing that matters is not what you do, its what you believe. Then you must’ve either (a) not seen the numerous postings by Navigator, PLD, and me to name a few, or (b) not considered any of those few folks to be Christians. Of course, that’s just an assumption on my part and I label it such. > [@](#): > > The best way to see if a site is satire or not is by looking at what kind of tee-shirts they sell:) Funniest thing I’ve read in ages! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/23 "2001-09-09T09:25:39Z")
Given the huge number of Christians on this ol’ planet: “a lot” can still be a very small minority. After all, if you have, say, 200 million folks, 1% is still a heck of a lot of people. & 1% still doesn’t constitute a majority. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/24 "2001-09-09T17:29:43Z")
**Tris** wrote, > [@](#): > > I feel guilt. I ask forgiveness… > > I have to ask over and over, because I am a schmuck. It works over and over, because He is the Lord of the universe. With all due respect, Tris, what “works”? You state that you are still a “schumck” (your characterization, not mine). Is it the guilt? Believe me, non-believers can feel guilt as much as believers. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/25 "2001-09-09T18:11:12Z")
**clairobscur** wrote: > [@](#): > > So, here’s my question : is there a christian faith or church which do teach that you can’t get rid of your sins/ wrong doings? In other words which don’t give an easy way to avoid retribution for your sins, which teach that you’ll someday have to account for them (and possibly also that your limited number of sins/good actions will be rewarded)? > > A church which would send all the non believers to hell but also the believers who didn’t at all lived following god’s commands would do the trick. The **churches of Christ** probably fit your parameter. First off, it is a mistake to say that the Catholic Church requires confession, while Protestant churches do not. There are some Protestant churches which do practice (and indeed require) confession. In fact, this is a theological sticking point as between some denominations of Protestants. Some Protestant churches do follow the “once saved, always saved” credo. However, members of the church of Christ are taught that even a person who has been baptized (a requirement for salvation in the view of the c of C) may still lapse into sinful ways and wind up in Hell. However, a Christian who has sinned may absolve himself/herself of this sin by confessing the sin and asking forgiveness. Generally, at the end of a service, the preacher makes a plea to the congregation for anyone who wants to be baptized to come forward, and for any member of the Church who has sinned to come forward and confess. The confessor then comes forward, speaks quietly to the pastor, the pastor then passes along the information to the congregation (usually in very vague and general terms), and the entire congregation prays for forgiveness of the confessor’s sins. There is no penance involved. The Biblical authority for this approach is found at [James 5:16](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=JAS+5:16&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=off): > [@](#): > > Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Further support is found at [Matthew 7:21](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+7:21&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=off): > [@](#): > > Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. So, back to the OP, the church of Christ would seem to be a “church which would send all the non believers to hell but also the believers who didn’t at all lived following god’s commands.” ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/26 "2001-09-09T18:16:50Z")
Oh yes, and for “Christians” who live openly sinful lives and yet fail to confess those sins, the church of Christ practices a sort of democratized form of excommunication. The congregation may decide to “withdraw fellowship” from such a person, with the idea that thw public humiliation may convince them to return to the fold. This practice is very rare in actual use, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/27 "2001-09-09T21:57:31Z")
Jude 1 verse 4 springs to mind: > [@](#): > > For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord And the letter to the Romans where, as **Mr Billy** says, this is thrashed out in detail. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/28 "2001-09-09T22:21:15Z")
Tris covered the gist of what needs to be said quite well, from the perspective of the believer, and Monty, Tom~, Spoke, and others have dealt well with the variances between denominations. I’d add only this: The key point, for I think **any** Christian group, is the necessity for **repentance**. This is not just the “going through the motions” sort of “washing machine” forgiveness which the OP suggested, but the state of mind on the part of the penitent of true sorrow for sins committed, the firmly resolved intent to cease committing such sins _insofar as one is able_, and the desire to “get right with God” – ideally out of sheer love for Him, though the desire to comply with the Church’s teachings and the fear of Hell are in most moral theology considered acceptable though not ideal motivations as well. (I speak here of the teachings of most catholic and protestant groups; obviously we cannot be certain of what God thinks of the matter, and equally obviously there may be substantial groups with differing views.) The basic underlying concept would be that anything short of perfection on the part of humans is inadequate in the eyes of a perfect God, that no human has it in himself/herself to be totally perfect at all times in all things, and that a merciful God understands this and grants His forgiveness out of His infinite Grace. It’s not something one earns; it’s His gift, freely offered out of divine Love. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/29 "2001-09-10T02:10:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Then you must’ve either (a) not seen the numerous postings by Navigator, PLD, and me to name a few, or (b) not considered any of those few folks to be Christians. Of course, that’s just an assumption on my part and I label it such. That would be (a). ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457/30 "2001-09-10T03:23:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rsa \*With all due respect, Tris, what “works”? You state that you are still a “schumck” (your characterization, not mine). Is it the guilt? Believe me, non-believers can feel guilt as much as believers. What works is that I am actually not nearly as much of a schmuck now as I used to be. (Hard to credit, I know, but true none the less.) Yes, part of what I get out of it is that my guilt is replaced with responsibility. Now responsibility is a lot more work than guilt, but it feels a lot better. But mostly what I get is more love from the Lord. And more love to give to those to whom I am now responsible to make amends. (Oddly enough, sometimes the someone is me!) I get another chance to break bad habits. I get another chance to take the strength I do have and use it in a way that will not make me wish God was not watching. ## Tris " It is no profit to have learned well, if you neglect to do well." ~ Publilius Syrus ~ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianism-sin-in-peace/80457.md?page=1)