# Christianity and Ghosts **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 25, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981 "2015-03-25T21:29:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/1 "2015-03-25T21:29:19Z")
So there are all these ghost shows on TV. People go investigating haunted sites, they find ghosts, and often, combat the ghostly infestation with prayer, exorcism, or some other Christian rite or practice. Now, my religious instruction is paltry and I haven’t considered myself a Christian (or any kind of -ian) since I was a kid. But these shows have got me to wondering: does Christian doctrine explicitly allow for the possibility of departed souls becoming trapped on earth, or otherwise interacting with the living? Or do they, as I thought, go forthwith to either heaven or hell, depending on their merits? Are Christians who believe in ghosts committing a heresy, or is everything hunky dory, eschatologically speaking? ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/2 "2015-03-25T22:03:59Z")
I seem to remember a passage where King Saul had Samuel’s ghost summoned, and IIRC Samuel was kind of pissed about it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/3 "2015-03-25T22:04:57Z")
“Christianity” is too big for a single answer. In Catholicism, exorcism is for the devil/demons, not for ghosts. I am not aware of any Christian group that would consider either a belief or a lack of belief in ghosts to be heresy. Catholicism does not address ghosts, particularly, but I do not know whether any other denomination has specific declarations on the topic. It is popular among a number of people who are outside mainstream religions to adopt or “borrow” rites from more established denominations and then attach their own meanings to the purpose of those rites. The TV shows, pretty much all entertainment efforts with no regard for facts or serious beliefs, are employing those tactics, (along with jiggling their cameras, adding odd sound effects, and flashing flights), to create the impression that they are actually investigating and addressing various phenomena. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/4 "2015-03-26T04:49:55Z")
FWIW, Catholic Encyclopedia (1911) [CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Necromancy](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10735a.htm) > [@](#): > > The Church does not deny that, with a special permission of God, the souls of the departed may appear to the living, and even manifest things unknown to the latter. But, understood as the art or science of evoking the dead, necromancy is held by theologians to be due to the agency of evil spirits, for the means taken are inadequate to produce the expected results. In pretended evocations of the dead, there may be many things explainable naturally or due to fraud; how much is real, and how much must be attributed to imagination and deception, cannot be determined, but real facts of necromancy, with the use of incantations and magical rites, are looked upon by theologians, after St. Thomas, II-II, Q. xcv, aa. iii, iv, as special modes of divination, due to demoniacal intervention, and divination itself is a form of superstition. On spiritualism (here called “spiritism”) [CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Spiritism](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14221a.htm) > [@](#): > > The Congregation of the Inquisition, 25 June, 1840, decreed: > > > [@](#): > > > > Where all error, sorcery, and invocation of the demon, implicit or explicit, is excluded, the mere use of physical means which are otherwise lawful, is not morally forbidden, provided it does not aim at unlawful or evil results. But the application of purely physical principles and means to things or effects that are really supernatural, in order to explain these on physical grounds, is nothing else than unlawful and heretical deception. > > This decision was reiterated on 28 July, 1847, and a further decree was issued on 30 July, 1856, which, after mentioning discourses about religion, evocation of departed spirits and “other superstitious practices” of Spiritism, exhorts the bishops to put forth every effort for the suppression of these abuses “in order that the flock of the Lord may be protected against the enemy, the deposit of faith safeguarded, and the faithful preserved from moral corruption”. The Second Plenary Council of Baltimore (1866), while making due allowance for fraudulent practice in Spiritism, declares that some at least of the manifestations are to be ascribed to Satanic intervention, and warns the faithful against lending any support to Spiritism or even, out of curiosity, attending séances (Decreta, nn. 33-41). The council points out, in particular, the anti-Christian character of Spiritistic teachings concerning religion, and characterizes them as an attempt to revive paganism and magic. \*A decree of the Holy Office, 30 March, 1898, condemns Spiritistic practices, even though intercourse with the demon be excluded and communication sought with good spirits only. \*In all these documents the distinction is clearly drawn between legitimate scientific investigation and superstitious abuses. What the Church condemns in Spiritism is superstition with its evil consequences for religion and morality. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/5 "2015-03-26T05:36:22Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > …does Christian doctrine explicitly allow for the possibility of departed souls becoming trapped on earth, or otherwise interacting with the living? Or do they, as I thought, go forthwith to either heaven or hell, depending on their merits? Are Christians who believe in ghosts committing a heresy, or is everything hunky dory, eschatologically speaking? Well, Jesus himself spoke to the ghosts of Elisha and Moses, so the standard Christian doctrine is that ghosts \*can \*interact with the living. Beyond that, the details get fuzzy. Some sects say that that only Jesus could talk to ghosts because they came from heaven and he ruled heaven. Some sects say that ghosts can leave hell if the devil gives them permission. Others say that ghosts are fairly mundane expressions of souls trapped in limbo. > [@tomndebb](#): > > I am not aware of any Christian group that would consider either a belief or a lack of belief in ghosts to be heresy. Jehvovah’s Witnesses. Official doctrine is that ghosts do not and can not exist, and any ghosts seen are illusions projected by demons. Belief in ghosts is seen as completely incompatible with church doctrine. The JWs get around the issue of Jesus talking top ghosts by claiming that they weren’t ghosts at all, just illlusions conjured by Jesus to illustrate a point. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/6 "2015-03-26T11:08:12Z")
The security level at the gates of Hell have been a bit overstated. As said ghosts are in the bible so it is permitted. But is it commonly demons that are being ‘combated’ by Christians, which are to many fallen angels. Angels can and do commonly appear on earth in scripture. Summoning a ghost of a departed person, to some, is taken as they are really being deceived and they are summoning a demon who will appear as that ghost. I’ve heard it said by a pastor that the ghost that Saul went to summons was probably a deceiving demon, the door that Saul opened, seeking wisdom and knowledge outside of God, allowed this door to open. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/7 "2015-03-26T13:55:32Z")
Of course it does. A ghost is even part of the holy trinity! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/8 "2015-03-26T14:19:48Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > Of course it does. A ghost is even part of the holy trinity! 😉 [“Guards, take their proton packs.”](http://xkcd.com/459/) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/9 "2015-03-28T05:04:40Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > FWIW, Catholic Encyclopedia (1911) [CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Necromancy](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10735a.htm) > > On spiritualism (here called “spiritism”) [CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Spiritism](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14221a.htm) I used this in a high school paper to argue that Hamlet’s father was a demon, and, moreso, that Hamlet should have known this. (I also here the appeal to vengeance, which would only prolong the king’s sentence in limbo. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/10 "2015-03-28T07:19:12Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The JWs get around the issue of Jesus talking top ghosts by claiming that they weren’t ghosts at all, just illlusions conjured by Jesus to illustrate a point. One of the earliest testimonies to PowerPoint, via camera obscura. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/11 "2015-03-28T07:48:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I used this in a high school paper to argue that Hamlet’s father was a demon, and, moreso, that Hamlet should have known this. (I also here the appeal to vengeance, which would only prolong the king’s sentence in limbo. Given the times, Hamlet wouldn’t have been intended to be Catholic. Not sure what CofE teachings are on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/12 "2015-03-28T14:13:53Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Given the times, Hamlet wouldn’t have been intended to be Catholic. Not sure what CofE teachings are on the matter. Hamlet would have been a Lutheran, not C of E, right? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/13 "2015-03-28T14:27:05Z")
Descriptions of ghosts (references to the word “spirit” that aren’t an abstraction like ‘we each have a spirit,’ but are clearly talking about an independent entity) only appear 4 times in the Bible. In 3 cases it sounds more like other biblical descriptions of demons rather than formerly living humans and the last sounds like what we call astral projection because the spirit in question isn’t a dead person, either. > [@](#): > > Or do they, as I thought, go forthwith to either heaven or hell, depending on their merits? Some religions believe you immediately go to heaven or hell. Others believe that the dead rest until judgment day, and will all be judged at the same time, so no one who has yet died has had their fate judged. Believing in either **and** ghosts both doesn’t make a lot of sense because neither possibility has room for spirits wandering the earth still. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/14 "2015-03-28T23:01:01Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Hamlet would have been a Lutheran, not C of E, right? It is more a case of how the author would have chosen to portray him, rather than what he would have been in the real world. Given the political/social situation in England at the time, it’s unlikely that a playwright seeking patronage would have made his hero Roman Catholic or even acknowledging Catholic doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/15 "2015-03-28T23:11:46Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Believing in either **and** ghosts both doesn’t make a lot of sense because neither possibility has room for spirits wandering the earth still. As noted above, there is plenty of room if you accept that the Devil would let spirits out of Hell to torment or mislead the living. That is perfectly consistent with the beliefs stated. True, it has no scriptural basis, but the idea of the Devil ruling in hell, rather than being a prisoner, also has no scriptural basis but is widely accepted. So that’s not a flaw. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/16 "2015-03-28T23:36:35Z")
The brand of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity to which I subscribed for a number of decades (but no longer do) taught that what our culture would regard as a ghost - viz, the disembodied spirit of a deceased person - is not actually a ghost, but rather, a demon, sent from hell to trick God’s people into not taking the occult seriously. In other words, that’s not the disembodied spirit of Abraham Lincoln sometimes showing up at The White House. That’s a demon pretending to be the disembodied spirit of Abraham Lincoln sometimes showing up at The White House. ---
**Author:** ![SJL4041](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@SJL4041](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SJL4041)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/17 "2015-03-29T01:16:35Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > It is more a case of how the author would have chosen to portray him, rather than what he would have been in the real world. Given the political/social situation in England at the time, it’s unlikely that a playwright seeking patronage would have made his hero Roman Catholic or even acknowledging Catholic doctrine. This is true. It’s also worth noting that the source for Hamlet is a 13th century Danish chronicler, so Hamlet is definitely not a Lutheran. ---
**Author:** ![NinthAcolyte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ninthacolyte/32/13676_2.png) [@NinthAcolyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinthAcolyte)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/18 "2015-03-29T02:55:15Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > The brand of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity to which I subscribed for a number of decades (but no longer do) taught that what our culture would regard as a ghost - viz, the disembodied spirit of a deceased person - is not actually a ghost, but rather, a demon, sent from hell to trick God’s people into not taking the occult seriously. > > In other words, that’s not the disembodied spirit of Abraham Lincoln sometimes showing up at The White House. That’s a demon pretending to be the disembodied spirit of Abraham Lincoln sometimes showing up at The White House. That’s what they teach in Southern Baptist churches, which are the largest Protestant denomination in the USA. The Biblical incident mentioned above is commonly referred to as “Saul and the Witch of Endor.” According the the narrative, after the death of the ancient Hebrew prophet Samuel, Saul, the King of Israel, no longer received the divine guidance of God. He therefore sought out a witch to summon the spirit of Samuel. The witch raises Samuel’s ghost, who prophesies doom and gloom and so on. Interpretations of the events that follow vary. In Judaism, some scholars/commentators describe the witch as a ‘ventriloquist’, implying that the spirit she summoned was simply a hoax. Others take the narrative at face value and accept that, evidently, it is possible to raise the spirits of the dead. In Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant teachings generally agree that what was summoned was a demon, or alternatively a demonic illusion, and not the actual soul of a deceased person. [Catholic Encyclopedia on Necromancy and ghosts](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10735a.htm) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/19 "2015-03-30T21:19:04Z")
Jewish folklore (which is non canonical despite some of it being arguably older than our canon) speaks of dybbuks. A dybbuk is the, generally malevolent, soul of a human being trapped between this world and the next. A dybbuk may cause various scary effects and even possess a person. A righteous rabbi employing the right means may drive the dybbuk out of the possessed person. The dybbuk will exit the body through a toe, leaving a small exit wound. I am not making any of this up. There’s a Yiddish opera The Dybbuk about a spirit plaguing a young woman. Marvel Comics had IIRC a dead man brought back by Doctor Doom as a draconic monster called The Dybbuk. The Monster In My Pocket series of toys, which was made by obviously knowledgeable people drawing on myths from around the world, included a dybbuk figure. The largely awful graphic novel Greenberg The Vampire included a dybbuk possessing a character. Oh, and a few years ago somebody on Ebay claimed that they had a small cabinet haunted by a dybbuk. Their story matched nothing I know about dybbuks. IMHO If you’re gonna make up a story about a dybbuk, the monster should behave like a dybbuk. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981/20 "2015-03-30T21:43:13Z")
> [@](#): > > This is true. It’s also worth noting that the source for Hamlet is a 13th century Danish chronicler, so Hamlet is definitely not a Lutheran. Nor, indeed, a Christian, as Saxo’s story is set a couple of centuries back, in German Pagan times. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-and-ghosts/715981.md?page=2)