# Christianity in the US is now nothing more than Culture War branding **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706 "2007-05-04T02:18:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/41 "2007-05-04T11:22:52Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Idiot. ^another example. **mswas** hasn’t been around for ages but I’m astonished you didn’t remember he’s not a Christian. [/QUOTE] Didn’t forget at all. Just pointing out that **mswas’s** post was a perfect example of the type of response given by some “Christians” when this topic pops up. > [@mswas](#): > > One negative side-effect of the mainstreamization of atheism is that now that there isn’t any real oppression anymore, atheists have become as weak and facile as most Christians. “Help I’m being oppressed!” Used to have to be hardcore to be an atheist, because if you were, you faced being burned at the stake after spending a few months on the rack. Now you just get to go online and jump to conclusions any time you perceive a slight to your chosen belief system. This paragraph would be at home on most conservative Christian message boards. Claims that there isn’t any real oppression of atheists anymore, and that it isn’t real oppression unless we are being burned at the stake or spend a few months on the rack. Hell, I guess _nobody_ is being oppressed anymore using those standards. On the one hand we are getting too strident by daring to put out books defending our point of view, and on the other we are “weak and facile”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/42 "2007-05-04T11:29:07Z")
Good OP. There are genuine, sincere Christians around, but certainly the people who have made themselves the public face of Christianity in the U.S. these days are engaged in nothing more than a modern form of tribalism. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/43 "2007-05-04T11:32:32Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] To the extent that people are nutso themselves, they think others are insane. [/QUOTE] This is, of course, not remotely close to being true. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/44 "2007-05-04T11:33:11Z")
[QUOTE=PerditaX] Okay, let’s try this again… **A majority of Christians in the United States are _not_ fundamentalists!** FTR, Fundies are not “mainline” Christianity. Usually the term “Mainline churches” refers to Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and similar, which are some of the most accepting and liberal denominations you’ll find. These are the people who provide relief to homeless people, maintain food-pantries for people who can’t afford groceries and send workers and supplies to sites of hurricanes, all without “witnessing,” but just out of a desire to help. You never hear about them because they don’t want you to. It’s not about them; it’s about doing what they believe God wants them to do. I’ve always loved the quote attributed to St. Francis: “Preach the Gospel. Use words if necessary.” The people who stick big ol’ bumper-stickers on their cars and beat people about the head and shoulders with Bibles are doing it for themselves, not for God. All I want in this threads is for people to understand that not all Christians are grandstanding jerks. In fact, very few are. They just hog the spotlight (because that’s what they want) and bring the hate onto the rest of us who are just trying to live out what we believe. Thank you for your attention. Nancy [/QUOTE] While I fully realize that fundamentalist Christians are not in the majority, I also realize that they are the ones influencing the conservatives in Congress, this current Administration, and the opinions of the rest of the world through their almost total control of religious media. If they “hog the spotlight” and ruin the name of Christianity, it’s only because mainstream Christianity lets them. If someone stole my identity, ran up a shitload of bills and proceeded to ruin my good name, I wouldn’t sit on my ass and whine about how it wasn’t me doing all that crap-I’d be out there doing my best to grab that spotlight and clear my good name. You want to be treated like the majority? Act like the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/45 "2007-05-04T11:35:11Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] To the extent that people are nutso themselves, they think others are insane. [/QUOTE] Which puts you where, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/46 "2007-05-04T12:05:44Z")
Believe whatever you want. It’s THIS shit that scares the hell out of me: [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ericzorn/chi-0705020848may03,1,211583.column](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ericzorn/chi-0705020848may03,1,211583.column) (not sure if you have to register to read the whole thing) In part: > [@](#): > > Once again this year, proclamations heralding Thursday’s National Day of Prayer are gushing in honor of religious tolerance and liberty. > > President George W. Bush’s proclamation asks “Americans of many faiths and traditions” to “give thanks, each according to his or her own faith, for the freedoms and blessings we have received and for God’s continued guidance, comfort, and protection.” > > Gov. Rod Blagojevich’s proclamation fawns over this “celebration of American citizens’ freedom of religion … which embraces the many diverse communities of faith that have infused our society.” > > But, in fact, the National Day of Prayer does not embrace diversity. It’s now basically a Christian observance, with more than 30,000 events nationwide promoted by the National Day of Prayer Task Force, an organization that requires its volunteer coordinators to agree to a statement that reads in part, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the only one by which I can obtain salvation and have an ongoing relationship with God.” > > Blagojevich’s proclamation says that “the theme for the National Day of Prayer 2007 is `America Unite in Prayer.'” This theme comes directly from the National Day of Prayer Task Force. > > “We’re not an official group,” said task force spokesman Michael Calhoun in response to a question I left on his voice mail. “Where did you get that idea?” > > From “National Day of Prayer Official Website,” the logo on top of every page at [ndptf.org](http://ndptf.org), I told him. > > “Oh,” he said. “That just means we’re the official Web site of the task force that promotes the Judeo-Christian expression of the National Day of Prayer.” > > A “Judeo-Christian expression” that excludes Jews?" > > “Right,” Calhoun said. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/47 "2007-05-04T12:08:31Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] **Polycarp** , I find the op and most of this thread to be over the top to me, but I wonder, do you realize how insulting your post is to an atheist like **Der Trihs**? In posting it, you are acting no better than one of the most rabid atheists on the board. Did you mean to? Jim [/QUOTE] It was perfectly okay to say that sort of thing to **badchad** , in fact it became a bit of a running joke in his last days here. Why is it not okay to say it to **Der Trihs**? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/48 "2007-05-04T12:18:59Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Didn’t forget at all. Just pointing out that **mswas’s** post was a perfect example of the type of response given by some “Christians” when this topic pops up. [/QUOTE] Uh-huh. So something a non-Christian says suggesting an atheist grow a skin exemplifies that which is said by scare-quote Christians end-scare-quote. Gotcha. But can’t you find enough examples by, y’know, actual Christians? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/49 "2007-05-04T12:19:35Z")
**Kalhoun** , think for a moment, will you? On a day when people are asked to “give thanks, each according to his or her own faith,” why wouldn’t Christians use that opportunity to give thanks to, say, Christ? After all, isn’t that their own faith? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/50 "2007-05-04T12:42:38Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Which puts you where, exactly? [/QUOTE] I know you are but what am I? 😛 :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/51 "2007-05-04T12:50:25Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] It was perfectly okay to say that sort of thing to **badchad** , in fact it became a bit of a running joke in his last days here. Why is it not okay to say it to **Der Trihs**? [/QUOTE] Was it perfectly ok? Could be, I missed that memo. My point was the I believe \*\*Polycarp \*\* is usually above such pettiness, and apparently he was and his joke just misfired with some of us, especially me. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/52 "2007-05-04T13:00:31Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] **Kalhoun** , think for a moment, will you? On a day when people are asked to “give thanks, each according to his or her own faith,” why wouldn’t Christians use that opportunity to give thanks to, say, Christ? After all, isn’t that their own faith? [/QUOTE] Oh, I thought about it, alright: 1. It’s being promoted by the president and the governor of my state. That’s not their job. Their job is to be outwardly neutral about religion. If they want to partake, that’s their business. 2. The National Day of Prayer is not for each, according to his or her own faith. It’s decidedly christian. > [@](#): > > But, in fact, the National Day of Prayer does not embrace diversity. It’s now basically a Christian observance, with more than 30,000 events nationwide promoted by the **National Day of Prayer Task Force, an organization that requires its volunteer coordinators to agree to a statement that reads in part, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the only one by which I can obtain salvation and have an ongoing relationship with God**." and > [@](#): > > “Oh,” he said. “That just means we’re the official Web site of the task force that promotes the Judeo-Christian expression of the National Day of Prayer.” > > A “Judeo-Christian expression” that excludes Jews?" > > “Right,” Calhoun said. Sorry…belief is fine, whatever gets you through the night. Endorsement of this kind of crap by the president and the governor is exclusive and offensive. Why, \*oh why \* must christians drag out the bandwagon and associate their superhero with our secular government (and indirectly, with patriotism)? Sometimes it’s a personal relationship with god (fine, as far as secular members of society are concerned) and other times, they feel the overwhelming need to thumbtack a tattered version of the stars and stripes to their cross so they look \*extra \* patriotic. Have they no shame? Can you see how that puts the rest of us on the outside looking in? National Day of Prayer website: [http://www.ndptf.org/home/index.cfm](http://www.ndptf.org/home/index.cfm) So you don’t see how a presidental goddamn proclamation would be offensive to non-believers? National Day of Prayer, huh? I thought that was every Saturday, every Sunday, and multiple times per day for the muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/53 "2007-05-04T13:19:33Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] I see “Christianity is Evil” backed by white and black. I see a place where religion bashing is cool and accepted. I see… The Pit! As per the bumper stickers thing though, I agree. At best it’s tacky and preachy, at worst it’s fundamendalist and scary. [/QUOTE] There was a letter to the editor today (in an Indiana paper) that suggested the motto should be replaced by the one the owner of the plate actually believes: “Holier than thou” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/54 "2007-05-04T13:20:38Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Uh-huh. So something a non-Christian says suggesting an atheist grow a skin exemplifies that which is said by scare-quote Christians end-scare-quote. Gotcha. But can’t you find enough examples by, y’know, actual Christians? [/QUOTE] Are you asking that I start a thread containing all the examples I can find of Christians giving those kinds of quotes? I can just see all the drive-bys accusing me of “Christian-bashing” that would result, thank you very much. I was upset at **mswas** specifically for doing their job for them, though he constantly professes not to be one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/55 "2007-05-04T13:23:43Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] National Day of Prayer website: [http://www.ndptf.org/home/index.cfm](http://www.ndptf.org/home/index.cfm) [/QUOTE] Not much inclusion of other religions on that site, is there? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/56 "2007-05-04T13:30:00Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Are you asking that I start a thread containing all the examples I can find of Christians giving those kinds of quotes? I can just see all the drive-bys accusing me of “Christian-bashing” that would result, thank you very much. I was upset at **mswas** specifically for doing their job for them, though he constantly professes not to be one of them. [/QUOTE] No, I’m asking that you not cite a grow-a-skin comment by a non-“Christian” as an instance of the kind of love Christians demonstrate. Perhaps **mswas** , with whom I find myself in agreement roughly once every other Pancake Tuesday when there’s a penguin in my garden, was not so much doing anyone’s job as calling things the way he saw them. Now get off the uncross, for pity’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/57 "2007-05-04T13:30:32Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Not much inclusion of other religions on that site, is there? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Well, no, there isn’t. But you will notice that it is a .org website and not a .gov one, and that Shirley Dobson, the task force head, is the wife of Focus on the Family head muckety-muck James Dobson. This may be the “official” site for Christians of some stripe or other, but it has no affiliation to the government that I can see, except that they choose to coordinate certain of their own events with the date of a presidential proclamation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/58 "2007-05-04T13:32:41Z")
The official proclamation, BTW, is perfectly and appropriately ecumenical, and totally in keeping with proclamations of this type. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/59 "2007-05-04T13:36:01Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Well, no, there isn’t. But you will notice that it is a .org website and not a .gov one, and that Shirley Dobson, the task force head, is the wife of Focus on the Family head muckety-muck James Dobson. This may be the “official” site for Christians of some stripe or other, but it has no affiliation to the government that I can see, except that they choose to coordinate certain of their own events with the date of a presidential proclamation. [/QUOTE] Then I’m sure you can come up with another National Day Of Prayer website that better shows the inclusion and tolerance of all kinds of religion. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/60 "2007-05-04T13:37:22Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] They can’t; to the extent people are religious, they are insane. Christianity has never been anything better than an “Us vrs Them” belief system. It’s **always** been about “I’m going to Heaven, you’re going to Hell, and I’m gonna love watching you roast while I laugh !”. Along with a hefty dose of self hatred. [/QUOTE] Where would Christian Universalism stand in your analysis? Not a part of Christianity? Or not sincere in its belief that all are saved? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706.md?page=4)