# Christianity in the US is now nothing more than Culture War branding **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706 "2007-05-04T02:18:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/61 "2007-05-04T13:48:13Z")
The National Day of Prayer itself was signed into law by President Truman, with Reagan setting the date as the first Thursday of May. The NDoP Committee/Task Force which enforces the Christian aspect of it is not a gov’t body, does not have a copyright on the term, and thus can’t prohibit any other religious group from organizing a NDoP event, or a non-religious group from organizing a counter-event. Of course, I’ll admit that Christian conservatives have indeed co-opted the event, but we don’t own it, and I’d even welcome alternate groups to step up to it. Put “prayer” into the search engine for here [http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php) and note that that Washington, Monroe and Madison all either proclaimed NDoPs or ratified Congressional proclamations, so it certainly it an American tradition which goes back to the Founders themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/62 "2007-05-04T13:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] The NDoP Committee/Task Force which **enforces** the Christian aspect of it [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure I know what you’re talking about, but I do have to say that that’s a rather…disquieting word choice. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/63 "2007-05-04T13:57:42Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Then I’m sure you can come up with another National Day Of Prayer website that better shows the inclusion and tolerance of all kinds of religion. [/QUOTE] [Sure.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060504-2.html) > [@](#): > > THE PRESIDENT: Welcome to the White House. I am really glad you’re here. Thanks for coming. And I’m honored to join you for the National Day of Prayer. On this special day, we give thanks for the many ways that America has been blessed, and we acknowledge the Almighty, who is the source of these blessings. > > I appreciate the Chairman of the National Day of Prayer, Shirley Dobson. I notice you brought your old husband with you, too. (Laughter.) Thank you for organizing this event here at the White House and around the nation. > > Mrs. Bright, it’s good to see you. Thank you, welcome. I’m glad you’re back again. Dr. Blackaby, thank you very much, sir, for being the Honorary Chairman of the National Day of Prayer Task Force. And we welcome Marilynn, as well. > > I want to thank the members of the Cabinet who are here. Thank you all for coming. I appreciate you taking time out of your day to be here to join. > > I’m glad to see my friend, Archbishop Demetrios. How are you, sir? Thanks for coming. I appreciate the military chaplains who are here. Thanks for administering to the needs and souls of the men and women who wear the uniform. Yours is an important job, and I’m grateful, as your Commander-in-Chief, for what you do. > > I want to thank Rabbi Ciment, Father Connor, and Jay Dennis for joining us. Thank you for your prayers and your strong statements. Archbishop Demetrios is the primate of the Eastern Orthodox Church in America. Rabbi Chaim Ciment leads the Chabad Center in Boynton Beach. Jay Dennis is the pastor of the First Baptist Church at the Mall in Lakeland, Florida. I do not know which particular Father Connor was present at this event, but I’ll bet he’s Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/64 "2007-05-04T14:03:47Z")
[QUOTE=BayleDomon] I’m pretty sure I know what you’re talking about, but I do have to say that that’s a rather…disquieting word choice. [/QUOTE] Yeah, let me rephrase, it’s the Task Force/Committee, emerging in the 1950s, which holds events which are exclusively Christian. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/65 "2007-05-04T14:05:46Z")
Here’s the 2007 Presidential Proclamation also. No mention of JC that I can see. > **[Briefing Room | The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/)** > > The latest news and information from the Biden-Harris administration. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/66 "2007-05-04T14:08:22Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Thank you for an example of what **Aeschines** is talking about-what passes for Christian “love” in parts of our society today. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but he forgot to follow it up with, “Who gives a fuck, you’re going to burn anyway”. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/67 "2007-05-04T14:08:37Z")
But there is a mention of god. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/68 "2007-05-04T14:22:48Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] But there is a mention of god. [/QUOTE] Well it was a prayer day. JC is only God to Christians, not other religious groups. Wouldn’t it be a little silly to have a prayer day and no mention of God at all? Not that I think there should be a prayer day. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/69 "2007-05-04T14:22:59Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Used to have to be hardcore to be an atheist, because if you were, you faced being burned at the stake after spending a few months on the rack. [/QUOTE] Can someone come up with some specific examples of atheists who were arrested, tortured, and/or put to death for being atheist within the last couple of centuries? Or at all? My impression is that both the Catholic and Protestant churches were willing to ignore or overlook atheism so long as you didn’t openly oppose the Powers That Be. I can’t seem to think of a single example of an atheist being put to death simply for being an atheist, nor do I recall atheists being sniffed out the way “witches” were. On the other hand, plenty of Christians died in the Soviet gulags. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/70 "2007-05-04T14:25:47Z")
Right there is. But the Constitution does not mandate hostility toward religion, nor even a totally hands off approach to it, much as you might desire that approach. What is mandated is freedom of individual belief and no official establishment of a particular religion. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/71 "2007-05-04T14:28:44Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] On the other hand, plenty of Christians died in the Soviet gulags. [/QUOTE] This op is about the US, not the Soviet Union. The Gulags were not for rounding up Christians, but for any and all dissident that ‘the powers that were’ in the old evil Soviet Union deemed worth sending to them. They did not actually hunt down Christians as a group. However, I agree, you would be hard pressed to find a case of Governments arresting and torturing Atheists. I hope it stays this way and I suppose **Aeschines** over-the-top fears is that it will not. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/72 "2007-05-04T14:30:33Z")
Let’s try this again, with feeling: **A majority of Christians in the United States are _not_ fundamentalists!** ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/73 "2007-05-04T14:32:29Z")
And it’s as ignorant to accuse all billion or more Christians based on the acts of a few. I cannot for the life of me imagine how anybody who styles him/herself as any way ‘intelligent’ can rationalize that kind of thinking. It boggles my mind that people allow themselves that measure of idiocy and think it’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/74 "2007-05-04T14:32:51Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Right there is. But the Constitution does not mandate hostility toward religion, nor even a totally hands off approach to it, much as you might desire that approach. What is mandated is freedom of individual belief and no official establishment of a particular religion. [/QUOTE] But that isn’t the only interpretation of the First Amendment out there, and putting it forward as settled fact isn’t really fair. There are many of us, including some pretty smart legal minds I’ve come across, who would argue that while establishment of a particular religion is obviously _verboten_, so is the preference of religion over non-religion - “an establishment of religion” rather than “an establishment of **a** religion.” ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/75 "2007-05-04T14:35:48Z")
So…what’s everybody doin’ June 10th for the 7th anniversary of Dubya’s Jesus Day? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/76 "2007-05-04T14:40:06Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] Let’s try this again, with feeling: **A majority of Christians in the United States are _not_ fundamentalists!** [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] And it’s as ignorant to accuse all billion or more Christians based on the acts of a few. I cannot for the life of me imagine how anybody who styles him/herself as any way ‘intelligent’ can rationalize that kind of thinking. It boggles my mind that people allow themselves that measure of idiocy and think it’s fine. [/QUOTE] You think your over size post above was intelligent? Thank you for stating the obvious and stating it late. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/77 "2007-05-04T14:48:22Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Well it was a prayer day. JC is only God to Christians, not other religious groups. Wouldn’t it be a little silly to have a prayer day and no mention of God at all? Not that I think there should be a prayer day. 😉 [/QUOTE] My point exactly. I couldn’t care less if it was coming from anyone but a member of our secular government. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/78 "2007-05-04T14:50:14Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] So…what’s everybody doin’ June 10th for the 7th anniversary of Dubya’s Jesus Day? 🙂 [/QUOTE] The mind fucking boggles. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/79 "2007-05-04T15:02:27Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Wouldn’t it be a little silly to have a prayer day and no mention of God at all? [/QUOTE] It implies that only those who pray to “God” are included, and excludes a large number of the world’s religions. Any “all-inclusive” religious event which refers to “God” automatically assumes that only those who pray to “God” are really included, and is often a veiled reference to “we right-believing Christians and the rest of you who also call yourselves Christians, but whom we know are at best misguided and at worst vile heretics, but who we will tolerate for the duration of this event”. Look at who Bush is welcoming for this event - several different flavours of Christianity and a rabbi. No Muslims, no Buddhists, no Hindus. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706/80 "2007-05-04T15:09:32Z")
[QUOTE=Bookkeeper] It implies that only those who pray to “God” are included, and excludes a large number of the world’s religions. Any “all-inclusive” religious event which refers to “God” automatically assumes that only those who pray to “God” are really included, and is often a veiled reference to “we right-believing Christians and the rest of you who also call yourselves Christians, but whom we know are at best misguided and at worst vile heretics, but who we will tolerate for the duration of this event”. Look at who Bush is welcoming for this event - several different flavours of Christianity and a rabbi. No Muslims, no Buddhists, no Hindus. [/QUOTE] That is a very nice post, that has nothing to do with mine. I was responding to Kalhoun equating God to JC, I was also mainly joking with her as she seems to have understood quite well. The key was my third line. I don’t think there should be a National Prayer day celebrated by the US government. Jim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-in-the-us-is-now-nothing-more-than-culture-war-branding/402706.md?page=5)