# Christianity: Is belief in God the only path to salvation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781 "2007-10-31T21:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/21 "2007-10-31T22:16:37Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] This, again, is exactly how I was taught, and runs exactly counter to many of the interpretations in the linked thread. It causes me to wonder how anyone can know what to believe, if current dogma can diametrically oppose past dogma. [/QUOTE] You do what everyone does: you pick what you like. If the current stuff appeals to you you’ll listen to it more, until it overshadows your interest in biblical literalism; if you like the sound of biblical literalism more, you’ll focus on that, until the modern stuff sounds like heresy to you. Everyone believes what they personally want to believe, and crafts the religion as a foundation under that after the fact. HUGE caveat: You might find your parents/community/ancestors making this selection for you. Though if your personal preferences conflict _too_ much, you’ll likely drift away sooner or later anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/22 "2007-10-31T22:17:15Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] One receives this grace individually by trusting Him, i.e., by putting one’s faith in Him. One is then, it would appear from Jesus’s teaching as presented in the Gospels and James’s expansion on Paul’s doctrine, expected to show that one has in fact decided to trust God and follow Him by a life characterized by the love of God and one’s fellow man, humility, the following of the Golden Rule, generosity, compassion, forgiveness, etc. [/QUOTE] You would agree, then, that belief is a necessary pre-requisite? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/23 "2007-10-31T22:22:20Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] It causes me to wonder how anyone can know what to believe, if current dogma can diametrically oppose past dogma. [/QUOTE] Use your heart and mind: study and pray. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/24 "2007-10-31T22:22:54Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] This, again, is exactly how I was taught, and runs exactly counter to many of the interpretations in the linked thread. It causes me to wonder how anyone can know what to believe, if current dogma can diametrically oppose past dogma. [/QUOTE] There is no universal dogma on this. A lot of evangelicals still hold to some very exclusivist doctrines. Some of biggest denominations have become more nuanced. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/25 "2007-10-31T22:24:15Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] Use your heart and mind: study and pray. [/QUOTE] Study what? Pray to what? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/26 "2007-10-31T22:28:17Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] There is no universal dogma on this. [/QUOTE] Right. I get it. If one dogma diametrically oppose another, how could there be? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/27 "2007-10-31T22:33:27Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Study what? Pray to what? [/QUOTE] That’s the first thing you need to study and pray about. I suggest Bazooka Joe. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/28 "2007-10-31T22:36:47Z")
There’s no need for debate. It’s laid out quite clearly what you must do. Luke 10:25-28 > [@](#): > > On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’" “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” Luke 18:18-22 > [@](#): > > A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’” “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said. When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” John 6:53-58 > [@](#): > > Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” Matthew 18:2-3 > [@](#): > > He called a little child and had him stand among them. And [Jesus] said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” John 3:3-8 > [@](#): > > “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” Matthew 5:17-20 > [@](#): > > “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” The famous John 3:16 says: > [@](#): > > “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” So, to get eternal paradise just follow these ten easy steps: 1. Love God. 2. Love your neighbors as you love yourself. 3. Follow the Ten Commandments. 4. Sell all your material possessions and give to the poor. 5. Eat the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. 6. Become like little children. 7. Be born again / be born of the spirit. 8. Follow the Law of the Prophets (watch out you adulterous wenches, I have a strong right arm). 9. Your righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees. 10. Believe in Jesus Christ. I guess heaven is going to have a very low population density. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/29 "2007-10-31T23:01:30Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] Use your heart and mind: study and pray. [/QUOTE] Apparently, people can do that and reach mutually exclusive positions. Sounds like a bit of a raw deal. And, to echo the other thread, if you contend that someone can love God with all his heart and mind and soul while at the same time believing that God does not exist, then you are using a definition of belief that is diminished beyond usefulness. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/30 "2007-10-31T23:07:15Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] I guess heaven is going to have a very low population density. [/QUOTE] [It certainly appears that way.](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:13-14;&version=31;) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/31 "2007-10-31T23:08:44Z")
[QUOTE=the raindog] [It certainly appears that way.](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:13-14;&version=31;) [/QUOTE] Hey, for all we know it might already be full, right? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/32 "2007-10-31T23:18:23Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Hey, for all we know it might already be full, right? [/QUOTE] Heh, it might be amusing to note that in Mormonism, many believe that that the highest kingdom (which is analogous to other kindom’s heavens) will be located on, and entirely encompass, the planet earth. (The planet’ll be refurbished first.) If that’s correct, not only would it not be full, but everyone there is likely going to be able to have their own backyards. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/33 "2007-10-31T23:21:11Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Heh, it might be amusing to note that in Mormonism, many believe that that the highest kingdom (which is analogous to other kindom’s heavens) will be located on, and entirely encompass, the planet earth. (The planet’ll be refurbished first.) If that’s correct, not only would it not be full, but everyone there is likely going to be able to have their own backyards. [/QUOTE] And very wide streets… ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/34 "2007-10-31T23:24:08Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Heh, it might be amusing to note that in Mormonism, many believe that that the highest kingdom (which is analogous to other kindom’s heavens) will be located on, and entirely encompass, the planet earth. (The planet’ll be refurbished first.) If that’s correct, not only would it not be full, but everyone there is likely going to be able to have their own backyards. [/QUOTE] I already have way more backyard than I deserve. I guess praying to the God Cuervo is working out for me. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/35 "2007-11-01T00:27:42Z")
[QUOTE=the raindog] Not [biblically] true. [/QUOTE] Usually when people suggest there is evidence for something in a text, they provide cites. I’m sure you know the Bible better than I do, so for the people like me could you do us a favour and quote the relevant passages? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/36 "2007-11-01T00:35:20Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Usually when people suggest there is evidence for something in a text, they provide cites. I’m sure you know the Bible better than I do, so for the people like me could you do us a favour and quote the relevant passages? [/QUOTE] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Rom. 5:12). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Magralopterix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@The\_Magralopterix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Magralopterix)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/37 "2007-11-01T00:37:39Z")
So…if the only way to Heaven is through Jesus, and those who don’t accept him will go to Hell, then that must mean that God is a worse anti-semite than Hitler. Think about it. Hitler burned Anne Frank to death for being Jewish. But this God fellow, if he condemns to Hell all who do not believe in Jesus, must be burning Anne Frank right now, in Hell…for being Jewish! What’s more, he’s going to carry on burning Anne Frank until the end of time. Why do Christians call Hitler evil and God loving? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/38 "2007-11-01T00:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Rom. 5:12). [/QUOTE] Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/39 "2007-11-01T01:11:50Z")
[QUOTE=LilShieste] What about a person who is born in a hut in the forest, unaware of the existence of the rest of society; what if they are never taught about God and Jesus? Why punish them for something they had no control over? LilShieste [/QUOTE] I’d heard long ago that such folks go to Heaven automatically. I think it might have been Terry Pratchett (though I am not sure) who commented that we ought to kill the missionaries, then, because when they go and preach to these hut-dwellers, they put them at risk of being sent to Hell for rejecting the testimony. If they had been left to their own devices, they would not have run this risk at all. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781/40 "2007-11-01T01:13:30Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Usually when people suggest there is evidence for something in a text, they provide cites. I’m sure you know the Bible better than I do, so for the people like me could you do us a favour and quote the relevant passages? [/QUOTE] Sorry. And thanks, **askeptic**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-is-belief-in-god-the-only-path-to-salvation/424781.md?page=3)