# Christianity & Judaism/what's the difference? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 16, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980 "2002-04-16T17:13:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/41 "2002-04-17T14:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Rather, there are three primary perceptions of God from man’s point of view: God as our father, the life-giver and authority over all things on heaven and earth; God as our brother, the one Who upholds and protects us when we’re picked on by bullies; and God as our essential essence, created in His own image. While that may certainly be your perception of the Triumvirate, I don’t think it is accepted as orthodox by most Christian denominations. I beleive most Christian theologies (not just “casual lay Christains”) claim that God is three separate beings (yet somehow still one), not that God is only one person with three different roles, or that we perceive Him as three beings but really He is only one. Polycarp described it as a perfectly functioning multiple personality; three personalities but they all inhabit the same being. (Personally, I’ve never quite figured out how God can be said to be three “different” beings if none of the beings can be lacking in even the slightest way some attribute the other being has, nor are any of the beings different in spatial/temporal positioning. Simply calling Him by different names doesn’t seem to make God a different person, any more than calling me Shannon makes me different than Gaudere in any “real” way) ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/42 "2002-04-17T14:37:32Z")
Libertarian said… > [@](#): > > Rather, there are three primary perceptions of God from man’s point of view: God as our father, the life-giver and authority over all things on heaven and earth; God as our brother, the one Who upholds and protects us when we’re picked on by bullies; and God as our essential essence, created in His own image. Very well said - I let that slide because I couldn’t think of how to express the “One God, Three Aspects” concept without starting a flame war. Heck, **real** wars have started over that argument… ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/43 "2002-04-17T14:43:38Z")
Gaudere, I would point to the most famous of all explanations of the Trinity: St. Patrick showed people a shamrock and noted that one shamrock had three leaves. Neil Gaiman once illustrated the same concept in his “Sandman” graphic novels when a character (who was supposed to be the literal personification of an idea) showed a person a jewel and noted how one facet was sparkling in the light. His point (and the analogy to himself) was that even though that one facet was drawing attention to itself, it shouldn’t be confused with the whole gem. ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/44 "2002-04-17T14:51:08Z")
Sorry to throw in the Hillel hijack, I just though it was a interesting to point out that Jesus’ “Golden Rule” wasn’t necessarily his own idea. But I do think that Jesus two rule approach works for summing up the law. If you can’t apply a law to loving your neighbor, you can fall back on “well, it’s done because I love God and want to follow his rules”. But enough of that. I would point out another important difference in the two is the idea of Satan and evil. In Christianity’s dualistic nature, Satan was an angel who rebelled against God, was banished from heaven into hell and now stands in opposition to him as the personfication and source of evil. Judaism has Satan merely as an agent of God whose job it is to try and seduce man away from God. There is no dualistic nature, both good and evil are presented to man by God for man to choose as he will, Satan is merely doing the job God created him for. No rebellion, no heavenly battle, no angelic opposition to God. Yes, these are both over-simplified (feel free to explain further) but an important enough difference to seperate the two even further. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/45 "2002-04-17T14:53:45Z")
Technically, God is one being in Three Persons. And while St. Patrick’s explanation is quite famous, it is also not entirely orthodox. The Persons of the Trinity are each distinct in nature, but one in being. The three parts of the shamrock have the same nature (unless he was talking about leaves, roots and the stem, but I’ve always been told he was referencing the leaves being separate but equal). ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/46 "2002-04-17T14:58:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I would point to the most famous of all explanations of the Trinity: St. Patrick showed people a shamrock and noted that one shamrock had three leaves. > > Neil Gaiman once illustrated the same concept in his “Sandman” graphic novels when a character (who was supposed to be the literal personification of an idea) showed a person a jewel and noted how one facet was sparkling in the light. But a leaf isn’t a shamrock, and a facet isn’t a jewel. They are just parts of something. But Jesus is (as I understand it) supposed to be fully God, not just a part of God or a particular perception of God. Your explanation makes sense, but I don’t think the Trinity is really _supposed_ to make sense, not in the way that it is supposed to be beleived by standard Christian theology. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/47 "2002-04-17T15:02:15Z")
Thunderbug, > [@](#): > > Sorry to throw in the Hillel hijack, I just though it was a interesting to point out that Jesus’ “Golden Rule” wasn’t necessarily his own idea. Don’t be sorry. Many Christians forget (or never really realized) that Jesus was an itinerant rabbi, after all, and well versed in the law. He certainly knew the law and was careful (if creative) to always obey it. Many of his lessons began with words to the effect of “look, you guys, you already know this - you just don’t want to admit it”. The only real change I can point to between Jesus’ teachings and those of other rabbis of the day was his inclusivity - deliberately reaching out to various sinners and bringing them into the fold instead of proudly announcing that God would punish them. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/48 "2002-04-17T15:09:28Z")
There are about a hundred analogies to how distinct Persons can be part of _one_ God in the Trinity; all suffer from appearing to subscribe to one heresy or another. One of my favorites is the one depicting one man with his mother and his son on the telephone and a coworker at his desk – he is at one time a son (to his mother), a father (to his son), and a colleague (to his coworker) without ever ceasing to be a single person in the process. (This supports the heresy of Modalism.) Three persons working towards exactly the same end, telepathic and able to know what each other thinks, feels, and does, would have a single will and purpose. (This supports a completely contrary heresy.) Portmanteauing these two analogies gives some concept of what the Christian Church attempts to say. **Gaudere** , you seem to be intent on drawing a man/god dichotomy – totally reasonably, I suppose. But to say that Jesus was “truly and totally God, and truly and totally man” is like saying that this apple is truly and totally red and at the same time truly and totally round. Different frames of reference. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/49 "2002-04-17T15:09:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by porkchop\_d\_clown \* > \*\*Thunderbug, > > Don’t be sorry. Many Christians forget (or never really realized) that Jesus was an itinerant rabbi, after all, and well versed in the law. He certainly knew the law and was careful (if creative) to always obey it. Many of his lessons began with words to the effect of “look, you guys, you already know this - you just don’t want to admit it”. > > The only real change I can point to between Jesus’ teachings and those of other rabbis of the day was his inclusivity - deliberately reaching out to various sinners and bringing them into the fold instead of proudly announcing that God would punish them. \*\* I’m afraid I’ve got to disagree with you there **porkchop\_d\_clown**. Jesus’ teachings were very different from the teachings and rulings of the other rabbis of the day. In the NT, you will find that Jesus violated the Sabbath. There was no major rabbinic figure of the day who would have advocated doing what Jesus did. He taught that eating non-kosher food is permissible. Again, no major rabbinic figure of the day would have advocated doing so. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/50 "2002-04-17T15:11:10Z")
Gaudere, Well, like I said, wars have been fought over the nature of the Trinity (and similar questions) so I doubt we’re gonna resolve it here. 😉 Next thing you know we’re gonna be hammering on the whole “Jesus: God or Man” problem. In the end, my personal attitude is that when I get There, I’ll ask someone to explain it to me. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/51 "2002-04-17T15:14:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Gaudere, you seem to be intent on drawing a man/god dichotomy – totally reasonably, I suppose. Um, where did I do that? I was more concerned with trichotimies. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/52 "2002-04-17T15:17:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\* > In the NT, you will find that Jesus violated the Sabbath. There was no major rabbinic figure of the day who would have advocated doing what Jesus did. > > He taught that eating non-kosher food is permissible. Again, no major rabbinic figure of the day would have advocated doing so. > > \*\* Interesting; I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to get deep into this subject here, but while I remember something about whether or not it was permissible to heal the sick on the Sabbath (and Jesus’ response was that it was always permissible to do God’s work) I don’t recall an occassion when Jesus violated the dietary laws. Could you point me in the right direction? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/53 "2002-04-17T15:25:35Z")
You are right **porkchop**. I must retract that portion of my statement. I had recalled Matthew 15:11 _goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’_ but did not remember the whole story. Upon rechecking, I found that he simply did away with hand-washing, not dietary law. As such, I apologize and retract. However, the matter of his Sabbath violation still stands. In addition, having re-read Matthew 12, I can further bolster my point. Jesus compared his Sabbath violation to David’s eating sacrificial foods in Samuel. The two cases, however, are no comperable. Among the differences are that: (1) David’s life was in danger. He was running from Saul (who wanted to kill him). He stopped in the city of Nob (where _kohanim_ lived. It certainly made sense that in such a place, there would be food that only a _kohen_ could eat. However, since he was on the run and his life was in danger, he was not only permitted to, but, under Jewish law, required to eat to save his life. Jesus had no such excuse. His life was not in danger. Merely being “hungry” does not give one the right to violate the Sabbath. (2) David’s eating of sacrificial foods, even if done in violation of the law is not a capital offense. Sabbath violation, however, is a capital offense. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/54 "2002-04-17T15:29:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by porkchop\_d\_clown \* > \*\* > > Interesting; I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to get deep into this subject here, but while I remember something about whether or not it was permissible to heal the sick on the Sabbath (and Jesus’ response was that it was always permissible to do God’s work) \*\* [Sigh] All that pontificating in the last post and I didn’t get to the point. [/Sigh] The point is that Jesus did differ with the leading rabbinic authorities of the day. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/55 "2002-04-17T15:30:26Z")
Thanks, Zev. I’ll have to reread that myself. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/56 "2002-04-17T15:43:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Upon rechecking, I found that he simply did away with hand-washing, not dietary law. As such, I apologize and retract. Actually, according to Paul, Jesus did say that kosher laws were no longer in effect–but He did it in a vision to Paul, not something He said outright prior to being crucified. So, um, the cynical sorts might question this ;), but Christianity accepts that they are no longer bound by kosher laws. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/57 "2002-04-17T15:45:15Z")
Well, Paul threw out Jewish law pretty much _in toto_ by saying that they were “freed from the curse of the Law.” Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/58 "2002-04-17T16:03:25Z")
Actually, it was Peter who had the vision, not Paul. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/59 "2002-04-17T16:12:47Z")
zev: > [@](#): > > The Saudacees DID not believe in the concept of the resurrection of the dead. I’m not sure that they disagreed with the concept of the afterlife in general. In fact, given the above-mentioned story, I don’t see how they could disagree with the concept of an afterlife at all. What they disagreed with was the concept of reward and punishment in the afterlife. Recall that the source of their beliefs was a misunderstanding of Antigonus of Socho’s teaching in Avos 1:3. DSeid: > [@](#): > > They were the originators of the Oral Law … a tradition of how Torah was to interpreted and applied. Well, as we (Orthodox Jews) see them, _transmitters_, not originators. jsleek: > [@](#): > > (3) Dr. Laura often explains Judaism on her radio program. Does she do a good job of it? I think so. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980/60 "2002-04-17T16:51:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, it was Peter who had the vision, not Paul. D’oh! Thanks for the correction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-judaism-whats-the-difference/103980.md?page=4)