# Christianity Question: The Death of Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347 "2002-12-17T15:56:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/21 "2002-12-17T20:29:56Z")
yeah sure I avoid pain whenever possible, but if I were assured a blissful heaven directly after (as opposed to life on earth which is NOT blissful) I think I’d take the blissful heaven even with horrible pain. So, Jesus’ sacrifice is now on par with every human who’s sacrificed their life for anothers? There ARE people like that you know… I thought, other than what it stands for, the single GREATEST base of Christianity is that Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross for humanity’s sins… I’ll try **Polycarp’s** idea: What did Jesus do, and what did He know when He did it?" And, to me, if he didn;t sacrifice something monumental and knew that he was going to be in heaven almost immediately thereafter, why is this SUCH a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![serenitynow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@serenitynow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/serenitynow)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/22 "2002-12-18T00:02:58Z")
BBJ. thanks for clarifying. If I understand what you are asking, it is what’s the big deal about Jesus dying? Why wouldn’t it be just as big a deal for Anne Frank, Anwar Sadat, John Kennedy or anyone else to die? I think the answer, assuming I have the right question, is this: Jesus never sinned. Not even once. That cannot be said about any other human who ever lived, and therefore, there is no one else who could have been the perfect sacrifice sufficient to make the required payment for our sins. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/23 "2002-12-18T08:13:28Z")
Jesus cheated. As I understand the equation, if I die with unrepented sins, the penalty is an eternity separated from God. He was separated from God for three days. Three whole days, then an eternity in paradise. How is this equivalent? How are my sins paid for? It certainly seems that God is playing favorites and fudging the rules. As I said before, when Jesus sacrifices his soul to Hell for eternity, then I will be impressed. Until then, it’s just so much smoke and mirrors. ---
**Author:** ![mrcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@mrcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrcrow)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/24 "2002-12-18T08:59:37Z")
Jesus death fits the mind set of the day the sacrifice for atonement made each year for the people if the sacrifice was not good enough then the priest gets killed? tied by a rope to get pulled out of the H.o.H. Jesus death becomes the one off unequivically acceptable sacrifice to God for all time for all people. it follows a pattern also of being pierced and stiped and made from sinless material… it doesnt make too much sense to us know because we dont have animal sacrifice. in order for this to make sense to the whole of the world the jewish-ness has to a be explained away in theological terms. a simple person of the time would view this death as being of the greatest importance to them provided they believed that the sacrifice was the Son of God…or Messiah no 1 son of Joseph the raising from the dead was done to lazarus…but lazarus died later…Jesus took a position not in heaven but at the right hand etc. and is to return as Messiah no 2 son of David christians believe it is one and the same person a lot of the biblical narrative is relative to the culture and religion of the day. Jesus did not advocate any change in that. that came later. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/25 "2002-12-18T12:03:39Z")
Fear Itself wrote: > [@](#): > > Jesus cheated. Nah. Your analysis is just flawed. > [@](#): > > As I understand the equation, if I die with unrepented sins, the penalty is an eternity separated from God. If you believe that, why don’t you just repent? > [@](#): > > He was separated from God for three days. Actually, He IS God. What He did is the equivalent of you being drawn and quartered until your torso explodes and all your guts spill out. > [@](#): > > Three whole days, then an eternity in paradise. The only one besides Jesus whom we KNOW is spending an eternity in paradise is a Roman thief. And all _he_ did was ask. > [@](#): > > How is this equivalent? I think you’re weighing irrelevant matters to measure equivalence. What is equivalent is His resurrection and ours. > [@](#): > > How are my sins paid for? Like anything else you pay for. If you freely and willfully decide that what you’re buying is worth more than what you’re willing to exchange, [an economic transaction occurs](http://www.mises.org/humanaction.asp). > [@](#): > > It certainly seems that God is playing favorites and fudging the rules. If so, then the favorites are we — those of us who don’t have to spend even “three days” in hell. > [@](#): > > As I said before, when Jesus sacrifices his soul to Hell for eternity, then I will be impressed. No, you will be lost. > [@](#): > > Until then, it’s just so much smoke and mirrors. Maybe you’ve just eaten too many carbohydrates. Brain fog. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/26 "2002-12-18T13:08:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*What’s the big deal??? > > If you’re like most people, you avoid pain whenever and wherever possible. If you’re like me, a mere paper cut is a big deal. How many of us would willingly undergo torture and crucifixion, even if we (somehow) KNEW that it would “only” last a few hours, and that it would be all right in the end? \*\* If they knew _for sure_ that they’d enjoy an eternal pleasant afterlife forever, and that it would be extremely beneficial for the whole humanity, plenty of people would accept. I certainly would. Plenty of people died for a much less important cause, and without any certainty of an afterlife, and sometimes without any hope there would be one. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/27 "2002-12-18T13:10:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > [ > So, what really happened is that is that God sacrificed Himself TO Himself, to change rules that He Himself made. That’s exactly the logical conclusion one can deduce from christian beliefs… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/28 "2002-12-18T13:16:22Z")
…if one is drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/29 "2002-12-18T13:16:33Z")
The annoying trinity thing could actually be fundamentally important to the whole issue; If Jesus is wholly God, then it means God allowed _himself_ to be broken in order to restore humanity. That God ‘only’ allowed himself to be broken for three days may be the wrong way to look at it too, since it is a view from within the temporal reference frame; considering the eternal view, there would be a very real sense in which the sacrifice of Jesus: -Is anticipated -Is happening -Has happened all at the same ‘time’. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/30 "2002-12-18T14:19:44Z")
I have always considered Jesus’ accomplishments to be more impressive if he was merely a human who engineered the beginning of his own religion in a Godless universe, rather than part God. It is also a simpler explanation for such thorny issues as Jesus’ choice in the matter (or lack thereof) since it requires fewer assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347/31 "2002-12-18T16:43:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\* > > Nah. Your analysis is just flawed. \*\* Just because you say so? You have demonstrated no flaw, other than I disagree with you. Apparently that deserves eternal punishment. > [@](#): > > **If you believe that, why don’t you just repent?** Thank you for making my point; I don’t believe in your petty religion, nor any of a hundred others designed to subjugate the human spirit in the false belief that humans must grovel before a non existent god. > [@](#): > > **Actually, He IS God. What He did is the equivalent of you being drawn and quartered until your torso explodes and all your guts spill out.** But it isn’t equivalent to spending an eternity in Hell, so my sins are not paid for. > [@](#): > > **The only one besides Jesus whom we KNOW is spending an eternity in paradise is a Roman thief. And all _he_ did was ask.** You don’t KNOW anything, it’s all based on one book of questionable provenance. Your whole argument is based on accepting the Bible as fact, with the implied threat that if I don’t I will be punished for eternity. That kind of coersion only works on simple minds, and I for one am not buying it. > [@](#): > > **I think you’re weighing irrelevant matters to measure equivalence. What is equivalent is His resurrection and ours.** The equivalence of Jesus’ sacrifice with the payment of my sins is exactly what we are debating. My resurrection is irrelevant to this discussion. I can undertand why you want to derail a debate that you are losing, but I won’t allow it. Stay on topic **Lib**. > [@](#): > > **Like anything else you pay for. If you freely and willfully decide that what you’re buying is worth more than what you’re willing to exchange, [an economic transaction occurs](http://www.mises.org/humanaction.asp).** So in this case Jesus decides what my sins are worth, and if I don’t accept his terms, I’m damned? What kind of screwy economic theory is that? > [@](#): > > **If so, then the favorites are we — those of us who don’t have to spend even “three days” in hell.** You’re waffling again **Lib** , stay on topic. Jesus/God made one set of rules that apply to us, and a second, easier set for himself. Three days in Hell is always going to easier than an eternity, no matter who is doing the time. > [@](#): > > **No, you will be lost.** Irrelevant to the debate at hand. > [@](#): > > \*\*Maybe you’ve just eaten too many carbohydrates. Brain fog. 😉 \*\* Ad Hominem. You’re better than this, \*\*Lib \*\*. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christianity-question-the-death-of-jesus/143347.md?page=1)